Section 21 notice correctness and validity

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    Section 21 notice correctness and validity

    Hi,

    On 14th November, my landlord came to my house to announce his will to sell the house. He brought a witness but he didn't explicitly spoke about dates.
    we didn't receive any official notice until 1st December when he brought by hand a letter dated 13th November with the notice.

    Why didn't he bring the notice personally when he came to our place?!
    I think this was the first lie: he forgot or didn't think of sending the notice..
    is this valid? as far as I know it's the date you receive the notice which counts, not the sending date.

    Second problem:
    we have an AST of one year, we pay the rent monthly. we started the tenancy on 26th April 2009. In the contract it is explicitly written:
    “This agreement may be terminated by the Landlord upon serving 2 months notice in writing not to be served before 26/12/2009 to the property address”.

    What does this mean?! IMHO it means the LL cannot GIVE the notice before 26/12 and starting from the date he gives notice we have 2 months to vacate the property.

    Do you agree?!
    He came to me with this sentence: "I am advised that an AST is terminable by two months notice, irrespective of the terms of the agreement. This period is laid down in statute which cuts across any written agreement: If you have better advice I am willing to listen, but out solicitor seems pretty certain"

    statute?!! winning over a contract?!?!
    I think he is wrong and we have been a bit abused (he's now threatening to go to court)
    Can you please advice what to do? shall I wait to receive an eviction or shall I do something before?

    Many thanks in advance
    Diego

    #2
    An s.21 notice may be served in person; and may be served at any time during the fixed (or periodic) term.
    • Is tenancy an AST in England or Wales?
    • If annual rent < £25k, was a deposit taken by the LL and protected?
    The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by tom999 View Post
      An s.21 notice may be served in person; and may be served at any time during the fixed (or periodic) term.
      ... and must be served in writing. Sounds like the notice is invalid to me.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by asquithea View Post
        ... and must be served in writing. Sounds like the notice is invalid to me.
        No.
        OP did not state an oral notice, but did mention notice was 'brought by hand':
        Originally posted by diegoarmando View Post
        ...we didn't receive any official notice until 1st December when he brought by hand a letter dated 13th November with the notice.
        The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by tom999 View Post
          No.
          OP did not state an oral notice, but did mention notice was 'brought by hand':
          Delivered by hand on 1st December. Doesn't that mean that's the date it was formally served?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by asquithea View Post
            Delivered by hand on 1st December. Doesn't that mean that's the date it was formally served?
            Yes, but how is the s.21 invalid (based on the info. OP has given)?
            The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by tom999 View Post
              Yes, but how is the s.21 invalid (based on the info. OP has given)?
              Ah, I see your point. I guess it very much depends what date was given. Since the OP specifically mentioned the date the S.21 was served, I assumed that it was of significance. Perhaps not.

              Bit more info from the OP, then?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by diegoarmando View Post
                Hi,

                Second problem:
                we have an AST of one year, we pay the rent monthly. we started the tenancy on 26th April 2009. In the contract it is explicitly written:
                “This agreement may be terminated by the Landlord upon serving 2 months notice in writing not to be served before 26/12/2009 to the property address”.
                Diego
                Weird addition to contract terms, that simply doesn't make sense! If AST is one year, you have the right to stay in that property for one year, regardless of whatever else the contract says, ... provided of course you pay rent on time, etc....

                Originally posted by diegoarmando View Post
                ... he's now threatening to go to court
                Diego
                The guy is a nutter!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by excalibur View Post
                  Weird addition to contract terms, that simply doesn't make sense! If AST is one year, you have the right to stay in that property for one year, regardless of whatever else the contract says, ... provided of course you pay rent on time, etc....



                  The guy is a nutter!
                  excalibur : please research 'break clauses' before wading in and declaring that people are nutters.
                  OP : it would appear that you LL has included a break clause in your contract but if it is only operable by him (and not by you) then it is probably unenforceable. Break clauses must generally be bi-lateral to be valid.
                  'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by tom999 View Post
                    Yes, but how is the s.21 invalid (based on the info. OP has given)?
                    Surely the LL can serve the s21 at any point after commencement of tenancy, but it cannot expire before the end of the fixed term unless there is a break clause. In this case there would appear to be a unilateral break clause (operable only by LL) which I would think is unenforceable.
                    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tom999 View Post
                      Yes, but how is the s.21 invalid (based on the info. OP has given)?
                      Fixed term ends April 2010 and he has been given 2 months notice to vacate backdated to 13 Nov 2009.
                      Dial 999 For a Landlord

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                        Surely the LL can serve the s21 at any point after commencement of tenancy, but it cannot expire before the end of the fixed term unless there is a break clause. In this case there would appear to be a unilateral break clause (operable only by LL) which I would think is unenforceable.

                        Rent is < 25k per annum and the tenancy is in England.
                        Notice was brought by hand on 1st December but the date reported in the letter was 13th November, since, according to the LL, he sent the letter that day which I've never received.
                        The break clause is bi-lateral. I have the same rights to end the tenancy giving a 2 months notice but not to be served before 26/12.
                        At the end of the day I would like to use this clause in my favor as I prefer to stay until 25th February because of the Xmas holiday, so that I have more time to find a new place.


                        Another point is I don't have proof the LL has protected my deposit (which was given of course from the beginning).
                        He could have done, but I didn't receive any detail and in contract is explicitely reported that he should have done it within 14 days from the date the deposit he's been given to him.

                        D

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                          Surely the LL can serve the s21 at any point after commencement of tenancy, but it cannot expire before the end of the fixed term unless there is a break clause...
                          OP has stated break clause (BC) is bilateral above, but if you mean that if the AST did have a unilateral BC, then this will make the s.21 invalid; then I'm not sure if this is the case, as I would have thought that the s.21's date of service and expiry date are more relevant to it's validity.
                          The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Krispy View Post
                            Fixed term ends April 2010 and he has been given 2 months notice to vacate backdated to 13 Nov 2009.
                            OP has stated that notice was served on 1 Dec with a letter, and not 'backdated'. Date on letter is not relevant; it's the date of service and the expiry date of the s.21 notice that matters.
                            The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by diegoarmando View Post
                              Another point is I don't have proof the LL has protected my deposit (which was given of course from the beginning).
                              Write a letter to LL asking for deposit protection info.

                              Originally posted by diegoarmando View Post
                              ...we didn't receive any official notice until 1st December when he brought by hand a letter dated 13th November with the notice
                              Originally posted by diegoarmando View Post
                              Notice was brought by hand on 1st December but the date reported in the letter was 13th November, since, according to the LL, he sent the letter that day which I've never received.
                              1. Was the notice served with a letter?
                              2. If so, was there a date of service on the notice (not the letter)? What was this date?
                              3. What was the expiry date on the s.21 notice?
                              The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                              Comment

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