Notice under s.21 of Housing Act 1988

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #61
    Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
    I, and it seems many others, thought that the court proceedings could not begin until after the s21 had expired. These 2 posts have been most enlightening. Thanks Jeffrey.
    Yes I thought this the case so I am educated (again) by this site! Thanks.
    And a L would do this - invest £150 in seeking a Possession Order early on - during tenancy period if he suspected the T was 'up to no good' as far as departing when they should and did not wish to wait to find out later on.
    Chas.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
      ·1/1/10 - 6 month AST signed
      ·1/2/10 - s21(1)(b) issued to expire after 30th June 2010
      ·2/4/10 - File N5b
      ·15/5/10 ish - Court issues Possession Order valid for - say - 1st July.


      I assume that in that scenario the tenant would not be liable for court costs, especially if they move out at the end of the fixed term?
      I also post as Moderator2 when moderating

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by Mars Mug View Post

        I assume that in that scenario the tenant would not be liable for court costs, especially if they move out at the end of the fixed term?
        That depends on what the Court orders. At that time, it will still be unclear whether T will vacate on term expiry as the AST requires.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
          I, and it seems many others, thought that the court proceedings could not begin until after the s21 had expired. These 2 posts have been most enlightening. Thanks Jeffrey.
          Correction: what you say here is literally true. No Court can order possession- L cannot even apply to Court- until the s.21 Notice period has expired!

          What you meant to post, it seems, is- instead- "I, and it seems many others, thought that the court proceedings could not begin until after the AST's fixed term had expired."
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #65
            No, what I meant was that I thought the N5b could not be issued until after the date given on the s21 as 'date of expiry' (well that is it's description on the LZ s21 template). This would never be before the end of the fixed term, but could be 6 months (ie longer than the 2 month notice required) after the issue of the s21.

            The key is the difference between the notice period and the expiry date. In my theoretical example, the N5b was issued after 2 months notice, but before the expiry date.

            Posts so far have identified that it is perfectly feasable for a fixed term tenancy from 1/1/10 to 30/6/10 to be brought to an end by a judge granting a possession order on the 15th May to take effect 1st July. If this is correct, several of us are enlightened.

            Comment


              #66
              Still wrong, I fear. You say that "date of expiry [= of s.21 Notice]...would never be before the end of the fixed term"; but why?
              A s.21(1)(b) Notice served more than two months before term expiry is a two-month Notice, after which two months L can at least apply to Court.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                Still wrong, I fear. You say that "date of expiry [= of s.21 Notice]...would never be before the end of the fixed term"; but why?
                A s.21(1)(b) Notice served more than two months before term expiry is a two-month Notice, after which two months L can at least apply to Court.
                "Don't Fear!" So a landlord could issue a section 21 immediately after the signing of a 6 month AST with an expiry date 2 month hence, even though that date is 4 months before the end of the 6 month fixed term?

                In which case, many tenants (who don't read the actual wording of these things) could assume they were being given notice to quit in 2 months time?

                I'm not disputing your assertions, and I have no immediate use for the info, but I am trying to make sure I know the process fully. Thanks Jeffrey

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                  "Don't Fear!" So a landlord could issue a section 21 immediately after the signing of a 6 month AST with an expiry date 2 month hence, even though that date is 4 months before the end of the 6 month fixed term?

                  In which case, many tenants (who don't read the actual wording of these things) could assume they were being given notice to quit in 2 months time?

                  I'm not disputing your assertions, and I have no immediate use for the info, but I am trying to make sure I know the process fully. Thanks Jeffrey
                  I am also getting a little confused now, just when I thought I had it!
                  My 12 month AST expires 30th November (started 1st Dec 09).

                  If I serve S21 in April (say 30th April) and dated "expires after 30th November 2010" i.e at end of 12 months AST - am I correct?
                  Or should it be dated 30th June ?
                  Or should I wait until mid September and date expiry as 30th November?

                  Chas

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Charles19 View Post
                    My 12 month AST expires 30th November (started 1st Dec 09).

                    If I serve S21 in April (say 30th April) and dated "expires after 30th November 2010" i.e at end of 12 months AST - am I correct?
                    Yes, that's OK. Don't sound so surprised!
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Charles19 View Post
                      I am also getting a little confused now, just when I thought I had it!
                      My 12 month AST expires 30th November (started 1st Dec 09).

                      If I serve S21 in April (say 30th April) and dated "expires after 30th November 2010" i.e at end of 12 months AST - am I correct?
                      Or should it be dated 30th June ?
                      Or should I wait until mid September and date expiry as 30th November?

                      Chas
                      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                      Yes, that's OK. Don't sound so surprised!
                      But this would not result in a possession order until, say, Jan 31st - 2 months after the end of the fixed term.

                      Could Charles19 date his s21 "expires after 30th June" to allow for the court process to obtain a possession order effective immediately the fixed term expires?

                      Comment


                        #71
                        i'm in a similar situtation to charles, where i have a tenant falling into arrears, whose contract is expiring in september (but lets assume its november like charle's example for simplicity reasons)

                        so if we both serve s21s on the 30th april, that expire AFTER the 30th november CAN we submit our n5b forms to the court say on the 30th september?

                        this would be 5 months after the notice is served and give us 2 months before the end of the contract to obtain our possession order, which would ideal be in place by the 1st december

                        jeffrey, please confirm that this is possible, thanks in advance

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by medlock View Post
                          i'm in a similar situtation to charles, where i have a tenant falling into arrears, whose contract is expiring in september (but lets assume its november like charle's example for simplicity reasons)

                          so if we both serve s21s on the 30th april, that expire AFTER the 30th november CAN we submit our n5b forms to the court say on the 30th september?

                          this would be 5 months after the notice is served and give us 2 months before the end of the contract to obtain our possession order, which would ideal be in place by the 1st december

                          jeffrey, please confirm that this is possible, thanks in advance
                          This is a really interesting thread but I should confirm that I have no issues with my T and would not normally expect to have to seek a Posession Order. But its good to learn how best to do it when need arises and to reduce time delays and lost rent (perhaps) considerably. And I must say , even with no troubles there is a consideration from me now to do this - just in case! But it may upset a good T so I am not sure.
                          I await Jeffreys verdict also.
                          thanks all
                          Chas

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by medlock View Post
                            i'm in a similar situtation to charles, where i have a tenant falling into arrears, whose contract is expiring in september (but lets assume its november like charle's example for simplicity reasons)

                            so if we both serve s21s on the 30th april, that expire AFTER the 30th november CAN we submit our n5b forms to the court say on the 30th september?

                            this would be 5 months after the notice is served and give us 2 months before the end of the contract to obtain our possession order, which would ideal be in place by the 1st december

                            jeffrey, please confirm that this is possible, thanks in advance
                            If you serve a s.21(1)(b) Notice on 30 April, it can give T a two-month Notice period. However, the Court cannot make a Possession Order during the fixed term that requires T to vacate before the fixed term ends [because of s.21(1)(a)].
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Jeffrey, can you give a suggested timeline to allow for a possession order to be obtained giving possession on the last day of a fixed term? If you could include dates for service and the s21(1)(b) expiry dates please? Hypothetically, 6 month AST from 1/3/10.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                                Jeffrey, can you give a suggested timeline to allow for a possession order to be obtained giving possession on the last day of a fixed term? If you could include dates for service and the s21(1)(b) expiry dates please? Hypothetically, 6 month AST from 1/3/10.
                                L can serve s.21(1)(b) Notice- giving T two months' Notice- at any time from when the AST starts; it's best to wait until 2 March. Assuming that the Notice period runs to 3 May, L could then begin proceedings and ask for a Possession Order effective immediately after 31 August.

                                NOTE: I do not deal with litigation. I have no idea if that would work in practice, nor whether a Court would hear the case in that time.
                                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                                Comment

                                Latest Activity

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X