Notice under s.21 of Housing Act 1988

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    #46
    yes lesson learnt indeed!

    i get tenants to sign their s21s at the start of the contract and i explain the reason for this as well and they are happy with this

    they are usually 6 month contracts

    should the fixed s21 expire AFTER the 6 month contract ends?

    or can it expire let's say 3 months after the notice is served, so midway through the contract?

    i'm asking, as if the latter is the case, i can start my possession proceedings before the expiry of the 6 months to speed up the eviction process

    thanks all

    Comment


      #47
      A section 21 notice can only expire at the end of the fixed term or by giving 2 months notice for possession.

      For example an AST commencing 1st Jan 2010, S21 notice can be served at any time throughout this term but cannot expire until after 30th June

      A S21 served after 30th June can expire after 2 months but this must be at the end of a rental period (i.e. notice served 1st July 2010 will expire after 30th August 2010 but notice served on the 10th July 2010 cannot expired until after 30th September 2010 as 2 full months has to be given and such notice to expire at the end of a rental period.

      Comment


        #48
        But it is possible to have a possession order effective immediately at the end of the fixed term. If the s21 expires at the end of the fixed term, does that mean that the court process can be started before the expiry of the s21 but no less than 2 months after issue?

        Comment


          #49
          thanks

          yes i'd like to know the answer to snorkerz question

          so if i issue the s21 notice at the start ie. 2nd jan 2010 and it expires after the 30th june 2010 - can i start evicton prodeedings after a min of 2 months after issuing it? or do i have to wait until the end of the contract to commence?

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
            But it is possible to have a possession order effective immediately at the end of the fixed term. If the s21 expires at the end of the fixed term, does that mean that the court process can be started before the expiry of the s21 but no less than 2 months after issue?
            I cant see how this is possible, but keen to be educated if it is.
            How can a court process be started when the T has done nothing wrong i.e is living there as permitted to?
            Chas

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Poppy35 View Post
              A section 21 notice can only expire at the end of the fixed term or by giving 2 months notice for possession.

              For example an AST commencing 1st Jan 2010, S21 notice can be served at any time throughout this term but cannot expire until after 30th June

              A S21 served after 30th June can expire after 2 months but this must be at the end of a rental period (i.e. notice served 1st July 2010 will expire after 30th August 2010 but notice served on the 10th July 2010 cannot expired until after 30th September 2010 as 2 full months has to be given and such notice to expire at the end of a rental period.
              Answering posts #10/11/12, Poppy35's second paragraph should read as follows:

              For example an AST commencing 1st Jan 2010, S21 notice can be served at any time throughout this term but cannot lead to a Possession Order giving possession to L before 30th June.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #52
                s21 notice before expiry of contract

                ok

                but my question is, assuming 2 months notice is given, can i submit the n5b form before the expiry of the contact, with the aim of gaining possession just after the 30th june ie. 1st july

                i have read on this site that possession proceedings can begin within the fixed period - but how can this be the case if the s21 expires AFTER the fixed period ends?

                i'm a little confused, can someone please clear this up!?

                Comment


                  #53
                  Yes, I got my 'knowledge' that it was possible to do this from an earlier posts on the subject by Jeffrey, so I would be interested to know the practicalities.

                  Perhaps Jeffrey or any of the other legal bods could comment on this hypothetical timeline bearing in mind Jeffreys last post
                  • 1/1/10 - 6 month AST signed
                  • 1/2/10 - s21(1)(b) issued to expire after 30th June 2010
                  • 2/4/10 - File N5b
                  • 15/5/10 ish - Court issues Possession Order valid for - say - 1st July.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by Evergreen View Post
                    but my question is, assuming 2 months notice is given, can i submit the n5b form before the expiry of the contact, with the aim of gaining possession just after the 30th june ie. 1st july

                    i have read on this site that possession proceedings can begin within the fixed period - but how can this be the case if the s21 expires AFTER the fixed period ends?
                    Once the s.21 Notice period has elapsed, whether or not the AST's fixed term is still running, L can:
                    a. start possession proceedings; and
                    b. even obtain a Possession Order.
                    However, any such Order cannot take effect during the fixed term, if it's still running- only after it expires; this is the effect of s.21(1)(a)of the Act.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                      1/1/10 - 6 month AST signed
                      1/2/10 - s21(1)(b) issued to expire after 30th June 2010
                      2/4/10 - File N5b
                      15/5/10 ish - Court issues Possession Order valid for - say - 1st July.
                      Yes, that seems OK. Why do think that there's a problem?
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                        #56
                        I, and it seems many others, thought that the court proceedings could not begin until after the s21 had expired. These 2 posts have been most enlightening. Thanks Jeffrey.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                          I, and it seems many others, thought that the court proceedings could not begin until after the s21 had expired.
                          Nothing in s.7/s.9/s.21 says so.
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            Nothing in s.7/s.9/s.21 says so.
                            Fair enough, I guess it is just a case of people not always fully understanding things and assuming. It will certainly alightly alter the advice I now give if asked.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              thats excellent news!

                              jeffrey's the man!!

                              some final questions rgding the s21 if you dont mind:

                              1. are these the correct dates to use - s21 served a day after contract signed, 2nd jan - expiring on or after the 1st july - or is 6 months notice too much?

                              2. in order to avoid the full 2 months notice, which can easily be done if one gets their dates wrong ie. mix up the wrong rent dates - is it safer to give 3 months notice to avoid this?

                              3. if i serve an s21(1)(b) during the fixed term, expiring after the fixed term - would this serve of notice be there for however long the tenant is living in the premises? so for example, if i had to evict the tenant after 2 years, could this s21 be used or do i have to serve another periodic s21(4)(a) at a later date?

                              4. can the judge throw out the s21 if the tenant complains of dis repair to the property - i have a tenant who isnt allowing us in his room to do some maintenance work - i think he may use the dis repair issue to his advantage

                              5. on my contract i have the following for the term:

                              TERM: A fixed term of 6 months from and including ………. 2010 until and including ………. 2010 - so for six months starting on the 1st jan it will read as follows: 1st jan 2010 until and including 1st july 2010

                              are these correct dates, or should the last day of the contract be the 30th jun 2010?

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Evergreen View Post
                                1. are these the correct dates to use - s21 served a day after contract signed, 2nd jan - expiring on or after the 1st july - or is 6 months notice too much?
                                fine, so long as deposit protected and prescribed information provided before s21 issued
                                2. in order to avoid the full 2 months notice, which can easily be done if one gets their dates wrong ie. mix up the wrong rent dates - is it safer to give 3 months notice to avoid this?
                                Best to get the dates right, as an error can invalidate the s21
                                3. if i serve an s21(1)(b) during the fixed term, expiring after the fixed term - would this serve of notice be there for however long the tenant is living in the premises? so for example, if i had to evict the tenant after 2 years, could this s21 be used or do i have to serve another periodic s21(4)(a) at a later date?
                                The s21 relates to a single AST or the SPT that follows it. A new tenancy agreement would necessitate a new s21
                                4. can the judge throw out the s21 if the tenant complains of dis repair to the property - i have a tenant who isn't allowing us in his room to do some maintenance work - i think he may use the dis repair issue to his advantage
                                No, an eviction under s21 is obligatory providing the s21 is valid.
                                5. on my contract i have the following for the term:

                                TERM: A fixed term of 6 months from and including ………. 2010 until and including ………. 2010 - so for six months starting on the 1st jan it will read as follows: 1st jan 2010 until and including 1st july 2010

                                are these correct dates, or should the last day of the contract be the 30th jun 2010?
                                30th June - 1st to the 1st would give you seven 1st's.

                                Comment

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