Long Term Rental

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  • Long Term Rental

    We are looking at potentially wanting to rent a property for between 3 - 7 years and wondered if there was a specific type of tenancy/lease that would be required for such a long let. The main reason is that we are willing to invest in the property but want the guarantee of being able to stay for a longer period that the normal 6 or 12 month AST. I had heard that it is possible to agree a longer term agreement and also that it wasn't possible and therefore would like to find a definitive answer

    Many thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by herstonbell View Post
    We are looking at potentially wanting to rent a property for between 3 - 7 years and wondered if there was a specific type of tenancy/lease that would be required for such a long let. The main reason is that we are willing to invest in the property but want the guarantee of being able to stay for a longer period that the normal 6 or 12 month AST. I had heard that it is possible to agree a longer term agreement and also that it wasn't possible and therefore would like to find a definitive answer

    Many thanks
    It is possible to have an AST agreement for (I think) up to 7 years; if over three years, it must be a written agreement (less than 3 years can be orally granted although this is not ideal). However, from a landlord's point of view, it is something of a gamble to grant a tenancy of this length especially with tenants he does not know. It is more usual to grant a 12 month AST first, then if all goes well, to sign a longer one, or to allow the tenancy to become periodic.

    From your point of view as well, you would be locking yourself into a very long commitment - what if the property turned out not to be what you hoped for, or your circumstances changed? I would go for a 12 month one to begin with, to make sure you like the place and have a good relationship with the LL.
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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    • #3
      Hi
      thanks for info - if i could put our situation into context it may affect any further comments or advice given.

      Having sold our house and ploughed all the money into a new business which will repay our loan by 2014 we are in the situation of having to rent. Have moved 6 times in 6 years so hence the desire for longish term rental.

      Where we are based in the UK there are a number of National Trust properties available for let and also 2 private estates that have estate housing. All the above 3 tend to be long-term rental opportunities.

      The current house we are in (owned by friends) was at the start going to be a long term rental opportunity for us (up to and beyond 10 years) and on this basis we invested £10K into the property. We have now been notified that owners daughter and husband what to buy the house (well three quaters of it) and we have to move out. Not wanting to ruin a 15 year friendship we are going to be moving out.

      The house that we are looking at is owned by one the local private estates and is in a small rural village. The landlord is putting in a new kitchen but isn't prepared to put in a new bathroom which is revolting - cracked tiles, mould, mildew, bare walls, cracked sinks and set up at the moment with a disabled shower unit which is awful. We simply cannot get the landlord, via the agent, to agree to redo the bathroom. Hence our offer to install one at our expense but with a gauranteed 3 year agreement. Landlord only prepared to offer 2 years at the moment.

      We simply don't want to end up as we are now having invested money and having no redress and being asked to move out.

      The only other option I would suggest as a prospective tenant would be an agreement that if we were asked to move out by the landlord, after an initial 6 or 12 month period then there would be some financial recompense for the money we have spent on having a new bathroom installed - is this "normal" parctice or able to be included in the agreement?

      Sorry to waffle on with our life story but yes we do know this is where we would like to live long-termish but think that our "standards" and that of the ladnlord regarding the bathroom are slightly different in this instance!

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      • #4
        What do you mean invest in the property? I don’t expect my tenants to touch my property other than by fair usage.

        In my opinion (and probably a majority of residential landlords) it is a bad idea to permit tenants to install something as important as a bathroom suite. A better idea is to negotiate with the prospective landlord to replace the bathroom before commencing the tenancy. If he says no, then find a different property to rent. If you find a landlord who agrees to your demands to "invest", I think they are being foolish.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
          It is possible to have an AST agreement for (I think) up to 7 years; if over three years, it must be a written agreement (less than 3 years can be orally granted although this is not ideal).
          There is no maximum (nor minimum) for an AST.
          But a letting [i.e. any letting- whether AST, SAT, common-law residential, business tenancy, or otherwise]:
          a. for over three years must be in writing (not oral); and
          b. for over seven years must:
          i. be by Deed; and
          ii. be registered at HMLR.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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          • #6
            Thanks for clarifyting that, Jeffrey.

            I knew 7 years came into it somewhere! I got my info from an old LLZ thread but that was clearly not quite right.

            Still not quite sure why it's called a shorthold tenancy if iit can be for a very long time. Perhaps it's like public schools which are not for the general public at all, in reality.
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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            • #7
              It's typically a shorter letting than, er, a long lease.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


              • #8
                Doh!

                Yes, i do reaise that, but since it is a legal term and lawyers don't usually 'do' thigs which are 'typicaal' or 'generally the case;, I wondered how this one had got through the net.

                Surely a better name would be 'assured defined- term tenancy'.

                Not that i want to give the lawyers a heart attack or anything.
                'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                  Surely a better name would be 'assured defined- term tenancy'.
                  No, because an AST can be created as an explicit contractual tenancy from day1; it need never be a fixed ('defined') term.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                    Doh!

                    Yes, i do reaise that, but since it is a legal term and lawyers don't usually 'do' thigs which are 'typicaal' or 'generally the case;, I wondered how this one had got through the net.

                    Surely a better name would be 'assured defined- term tenancy'.

                    Not that i want to give the lawyers a heart attack or anything.
                    Today's game, children: how many typos can you spot in that post? I see six!
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OP: everything is up for negotiation in my book.

                      If you are going to use goods tradesmen and the LL can approve the fittings, I would let you do it, if I felt that it was a good scheme.

                      You will probably need to pay rather a lot in legal fees to get something drawn up if they decide to end tenancy before 3 years. You will probably need to foot the legal bill for both parties.

                      The LL will either refuse or accept..but you must be prepared to walk away.

                      If you can pay a fair wack of rent up front this may sweeten the deal.
                      All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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                      • #12
                        you could offer to pay rent up front, but that would be a large amount over say 5 yrs. you would be better to buy a small house again as an investment for the future

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                          There is no maximum (nor minimum) for an AST.
                          But a letting [i.e. any letting- whether AST, SAT, common-law residential, business tenancy, or otherwise]:
                          a. for over three years must be in writing (not oral); and
                          b. for over seven years must:
                          i. be by Deed; and
                          ii. be registered at HMLR.
                          a. is not strictly correct.

                          For agreements creating a tenancy subsisting for over three years the agreement must be made by deed, which means it must be executed in writing and delivered as a deed, and witnessed (assuming LL and T are individuals).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by herstonbell View Post
                            The house that we are looking at is owned by one the local private estates and is in a small rural village. The landlord is putting in a new kitchen but isn't prepared to put in a new bathroom which is revolting - cracked tiles, mould, mildew, bare walls, cracked sinks and set up at the moment with a disabled shower unit which is awful. We simply cannot get the landlord, via the agent, to agree to redo the bathroom. Hence our offer to install one at our expense but with a gauranteed 3 year agreement. Landlord only prepared to offer 2 years at the moment.

                            We simply don't want to end up as we are now having invested money and having no redress and being asked to move out.
                            I don't understand why you are even considering spending money on improvements to someone else's rental property, and appear to think this is normal?

                            A very easy solution is to find somewhere that doesn't need any work done to it (not difficult), take a standard length tenancy, and renew it if you like living there.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              thanks for all the comments and advice given. My main question of can a landlord issue a 3 year tenancy has been answered and we have now agreed this with our new landlord.

                              In answer to some of the comments made - in our neck of the woods where there are a number of private estates (owned by what we would term as the landed gentry in the 18th/19th century) it is not uncommon for tenants to carry out repairs and improvements in return for longer lets and reduced rents. It may not be "standard/normal" practice or advisable and tenants do have to get the approval of any work done but as I said it's not uncommon.

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