Landlord won't renew AST- deposit not protected

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  • Landlord won't renew AST- deposit not protected

    My AST ran from 8 April 09 to 7 October 09. The landlord and I verbally agreed that a long term tenancy was mutually agreeable, I rented the property on this understanding and I fully expected a new AST to run for another 6 months from 8 October 09. The agents tell me there is no need for a further AST and the tenancy will run on a month by month basis.

    The Agents in their AST stated that the deposit was held with TDSL - an email from TDSL confirms that they never protected the deposit. I am trying to get another AST up and running because. apart from a guaranteed 6 months' security of tenure, I gather that I can do nothing regarding the non protection of the deposit under the Statutory Periodic Tenancy that is currently running from 8 October 09.

    If they grant another AST from 8 October I hope I can then demand to know if the (carried forward) deposit is protected. I know I should have done this when the AST was valid and I am kicking myself for not doing so! Without an AST am I completely thwarted regarding ensuring that the deposit is at last protected? I have a horrible feeling a periodic Tenancy gives me no rights regarding the Deposit Scheme and this is probably in the minds of the Agents too - lets face it, its surely in the Landlord's interest to have a guranteed 6 months' rent from a reliable tenant?

    Thanks in advance

    Ian

  • #2
    Without a protected deposit the Landlord can not serve a valid s21 notice upon you. Therefore he can't get a court order to evict you unless you fall into one of the categories under s8 of the Housing Act 1988.
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988...050_en_14#sch2

    Your rights under a 'periodic tenancy' are virtually the same as the original AST except you can give 1 months notice and don't HAVE to stay to the end of any fixed term

    Comment


    • #3
      Write a Letter Before Action to your LL, insisting that he supply you with the prescribed information relating to the tenancy deposit protection scheme which he has used, within 7 days, otherwise he will leave you with no option but to sue him for the return of your deposit and the 3x penalty.

      That usually has the desired laxative effect.
      'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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      • #4
        Originally posted by elstree324 View Post
        I have a horrible feeling a periodic Tenancy gives me no rights regarding the Deposit Scheme and this is probably in the minds of the Agents too - lets face it, its surely in the Landlord's interest to have a guranteed 6 months' rent from a reliable tenant?
        Your fixed term AST has rolled into a periodic AST. The requirement to protect the deposit is exactly the same either way.

        Have you asked the agent or landlord about the deposit protection? It's possibly just an oversight. I wouldn't assume sinister motives. Even without protection, LL is still legally obliged to return the deposit to you at the end of the tenancy (less any agreed deductions).

        Agents are usually keen to renew TAs as it means they can charge the tenant an admin fee for it, but they are right, it isn't necessary to renew unless you and the LL want to. Have you asked the landlord if he is willing to grant a further fixed term?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by westminster View Post
          Your fixed term AST has rolled into a periodic AST. The requirement to protect the deposit is exactly the same either way.

          Have you asked the agent or landlord about the deposit protection? It's possibly just an oversight. I wouldn't assume sinister motives. Even without protection, LL is still legally obliged to return the deposit to you at the end of the tenancy (less any agreed deductions).

          Agents are usually keen to renew TAs as it means they can charge the tenant an admin fee for it, but they are right, it isn't necessary to renew unless you and the LL want to. Have you asked the landlord if he is willing to grant a further fixed term?
          Thanks for replies. I have heard nothing from the landlord regarding a further AST to run from 8 October 09. However, I am relieved to see that a Periodic AST gives me the same rights as an AST regarding the Deposit Scheme, so will write to the Agents asking where the deposit ( or bond as they call it ) is held.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by westminster View Post
            Your fixed term AST has rolled into a periodic AST. The requirement to protect the deposit is exactly the same either way.

            Have you asked the agent or landlord about the deposit protection? It's possibly just an oversight. I wouldn't assume sinister motives. Even without protection, LL is still legally obliged to return the deposit to you at the end of the tenancy (less any agreed deductions).

            Agents are usually keen to renew TAs as it means they can charge the tenant an admin fee for it, but they are right, it isn't necessary to renew unless you and the LL want to. Have you asked the landlord if he is willing to grant a further fixed term?
            I am confused about my rights under a Periodic Tenancy. The Communities and Local Government website states the following:

            If the tenant decides to remain in his existing rented property beyond the initial fixed term of six months, how the deposit is treated will depend on how the tenancy is continued:

            For a statutory periodic tenancy - ie the tenancy continues with no new agreement - TDP will not apply, as no new AST will have been created.

            For a replacement/renewal tenancy - This is a new AST and so TDP will apply. The deposit previously paid under the earlier tenancy is repayable to the tenant at the end of that tenancy, so it should be returned to the tenant. Alternatively, if the landlord wishes to continue to hold it as security in respect of the new tenancy it must be protected under scheme


            TDP will not apply under a Statutory Periodic Tenancy? Can this be right? What does the Deposit paid under the former AST become then? A months' rent in advance?

            Comment


            • #7
              The information is correct. An SPT is not really a new letting, so the fixed-term deposit protection continues.
              TDP already applies, of course, but- as there's no new letting- there's no new deposit (so no need to use TDP afresh). The deposit stays where it is.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                The information is correct. An SPT is not really a new letting, so the fixed-term deposit protection continues.
                TDP is already aplying, of course, but- as there's no new letting- there's no new deposit (so no need to use TDP afresh). The deposit stays where it is.
                Ah! Thank you Jeffrey - now I understand!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Landlord not renewing AST as I expected - Deposit not protected with TDSL

                  Originally posted by westminster View Post
                  Your fixed term AST has rolled into a periodic AST. The requirement to protect the deposit is exactly the same either way.

                  Have you asked the agent or landlord about the deposit protection? It's possibly just an oversight. I wouldn't assume sinister motives. Even without protection, LL is still legally obliged to return the deposit to you at the end of the tenancy (less any agreed deductions).

                  Agents are usually keen to renew TAs as it means they can charge the tenant an admin fee for it, but they are right, it isn't necessary to renew unless you and the LL want to. Have you asked the landlord if he is willing to grant a further fixed term?
                  I checked with TDSL on 11 May 2009 regarding the deposit and they told me it was not protected with them ( Agents say it is protected with TDSL).

                  Since then I have used TDSL's "postcode name and date paid " automatic online deposit checker - I hardly need to tell you the answer......... I recently emailed agents again and at 0915am the next day they rushed back to me ( quickest ever response - I wonder why?) to say I "would have" received a Deposit Protection Certificate. Yeah yeah!

                  I have requested a copy of this certificate and no doubt it will arrive with a date of issue on it?

                  Any thoughts?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by elstree324 View Post
                    I checked with TDSL on 11 May 2009 regarding the deposit and they told me it was not protected with them ( Agents say it is protected with TDSL).

                    Since then I have used TDSL's "postcode name and date paid " automatic online deposit checker - I hardly need to tell you the answer......... I recently emailed agents again and at 0915am the next day they rushed back to me ( quickest ever response - I wonder why?) to say I "would have" received a Deposit Protection Certificate. Yeah yeah!

                    I have requested a copy of this certificate and no doubt it will arrive with a date of issue on it?

                    Any thoughts?
                    If it arrives it means that your deposit is now protected. You could try to take the landlord to court for failing to protect it within the prescribed time, you may win, you may lose.

                    The fact that the deposit is now protected (assuming it is), should give you reassurance.

                    You are on a periodic tenancy and you want to remain in the property, rightly or wrongly taking the landlord to court for failing to protect the deposit quickly enough is likely to lead to you receiving notice to leave.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by silvercar View Post
                      If it arrives it means that your deposit is now protected. You could try to take the landlord to court for failing to protect it within the prescribed time, you may win, you may lose.

                      The fact that the deposit is now protected (assuming it is), should give you reassurance.

                      You are on a periodic tenancy and you want to remain in the property, rightly or wrongly taking the landlord to court for failing to protect the deposit quickly enough is likely to lead to you receiving notice to leave.
                      Thanks for quick reply - having never seen a Certificate before, does it have the date of issue on it? Or can the agent simply insert a date that suits them - if so, that surely defeats the object!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by elstree324 View Post
                        Thanks for quick reply - having never seen a Certificate before, does it have the date of issue on it? Or can the agent simply insert a date that suits them - if so, that surely defeats the object!
                        The primary object is to ensure that landlords/agents comply with deposit protection, not to ensure that anyone who complies late is severely punished.

                        BTW, what do you mean by "TDSL"? Do you mean the Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS) - http://www.thedisputeservice.co.uk/ ?

                        If you do mean TDS, then your tenancy agreement must contain certain clauses specified by TDS for the protection to be in place. Check your tenancy agreement for references to TDS, then, assuming the certificate arrives, check with TDS that your tenancy agreement complies with the scheme's requirements (otherwise, the deposit 'protection' may well be invalid).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by westminster View Post
                          The primary object is to ensure that landlords/agents comply with deposit protection, not to ensure that anyone who complies late is severely punished.

                          BTW, what do you mean by "TDSL"? Do you mean the Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS) - http://www.thedisputeservice.co.uk/ ?

                          If you do mean TDS, then your tenancy agreement must contain certain clauses specified by TDS for the protection to be in place. Check your tenancy agreement for references to TDS, then, assuming the certificate arrives, check with TDS that your tenancy agreement complies with the scheme's requirements (otherwise, the deposit 'protection' may well be invalid).
                          Thanks

                          TDSL = Tenancy Deposit Solutions Ltd aka mydeposits.co.uk. My agents tell me they use this scheme.

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