6 months AST with 6 months rent paid up front

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    6 months AST with 6 months rent paid up front

    If a 6 month tenancy has started and the tenant paid 6 months rent up front does the landlord have to give 6 months notice to vacate the property? If so can we serve the section 21 several days after the tenancy has started? We know the LL needs the property back at the end of or shortly after the 6 month agreement ends. I recently heard all about this from someone who went on an ARLA course recently. Tania

    #2
    1. Any L (on an AST) can serve a s.21 Notice at any time after the AST starts.
    2. The length of the fixed term has no impact on that.
    3. Similarly, the fact that T has paid all rent in advance makes no difference either.
    4. Finally, what role are you playing in this. It sounds unlikely that you are L or T- so are you L's Letting Agent?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      You only have to give two months notice

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by chappers2341 View Post
        You only have to give two months notice
        Read that as You have to give at least two months' notice; it's not a fixed period, and L can serve as early as desired.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by tania pyke View Post
          If a 6 month tenancy has started and the tenant paid 6 months rent up front does the landlord have to give 6 months notice to vacate the property? If so can we serve the section 21 several days after the tenancy has started? We know the LL needs the property back at the end of or shortly after the 6 month agreement ends. I recently heard all about this from someone who went on an ARLA course recently. Tania
          I expect they are confusing the situation with where a s 21 notice is given after the fixed term ends. When a fixed term ends, the periods of the statutory tenancy are calculated by reference to how often the rent was payable immediately before the fixed term ends. If rent is payable six-monthly you have a six-monthly tenancy and the minimum period for a s 21 notice is 6 months ending on the last day of a tenancy period; that leaves you with only two days in the year for a notice to expire.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
            If rent is payable six-monthly you have a six-monthly tenancy and the minimum period for a s 21 notice is 6 months ending on the last day of a tenancy period; that leaves you with only two days in the year for a notice to expire.
            You are presumably referring to Section 5(3)(e) of the Housing Act 1988, and if Notice were to be served after the fixed term ended then the tenant would have security of tenure for 18 months at least it seems.
            The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Paul_f View Post
              You are presumably referring to Section 5(3)(e) of the Housing Act 1988, and if Notice were to be served after the fixed term ended then the tenant would have security of tenure for 18 months at least it seems.
              Quite. Quite. (Had to say it twice to get up to ten characters.)

              Comment


                #8
                I am the letting agent - a colleague at another company went on an ARLA course last week and was told that if a tenant paid six months up front on a 6 month AST then the landlord had to give 6 months notice to get the property back at the end of the agreement!

                Comment


                  #9
                  It would be interesting to know exactly what the lecturer said.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                    It would be interesting to know exactly what the lecturer said.
                    Presumably that:
                    a. the letting reserved rent payable six-monthly in advance; not that
                    b. T voluntarily paid six one-monthly payments together up front.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Even if (b) were the case it is still deemed to be that when the tenancy became periodic then the Notice period is determined by how the rent was last paid during the fixed term, and not by how it is reserved in the TA.
                      The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Paul_f View Post
                        Even if (b) were the case it is still deemed to be that when the tenancy became periodic then the Notice period is determined by how the rent was last paid during the fixed term, and not by how it is reserved in the TA.
                        Sorry but no! The Act says 'PAYABLE', not 'PAID'. Here's s.5(3) of the Housing Act 1988, with my underlining:

                        5(3). The periodic tenancy referred to in subsection (2) above is one:
                        (a) taking effect in possession immediately on the coming to an end of the fixed term tenancy;
                        (b) deemed to have been granted by the person who was the landlord under the fixed term tenancy immediately before it came to an end to the person who was then the tenant under that tenancy;
                        (c) under which the premises which are let are the same dwelling-house as was let under the fixed term tenancy;
                        (d) under which the periods of the tenancy are the same as those for which rent was last payable under the fixed term tenancy; and
                        (e) under which, subject to the following provisions of this Part of this Act, the other terms are the same as those of the fixed term tenancy immediately before it came to an end, except that any term which makes provision for determination by the landlord or the tenant shall not have effect while the tenancy remains an assured tenancy.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Having consulted one or two fairly prominent people it appears that if the L agreed to accept payment for the whole of the fixed term even for rent that was reserved monthly then that is how he determined it was 'payable' by his action of acceptance. I understand why you disagree, but counsel for either party might want to argue the point in their client's favour dependent upon for whom they were acting. No doubt a judge would come to an an apposite opinion, dependent upon how well the presentation was made.
                          The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Less-serious posts (about words that change their meanings) have been moved to a new Take A Break thread:
                            http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=23152.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Paul_f View Post
                              Having consulted one or two fairly prominent people it appears that if the L agreed to accept payment for the whole of the fixed term even for rent that was reserved monthly then that is how he determined it was 'payable' by his action of acceptance. I understand why you disagree, but counsel for either party might want to argue the point in their client's favour dependent upon for whom they were acting. No doubt a judge would come to an an apposite opinion, dependent upon how well the presentation was made.
                              'Apposite' : I do not think this makes sense, in this context. Do you mean 'appropriate'?
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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