Possession Claim On Line (PCOL)- help re procedure

[SALL]

Thanks for the feedback
Well, seemed a Good Plan and I've done just that... the advisor really didn't give the impression of knowing anything about it, but after consulting with her line manager, told me no, I'd have to submit a separate MCOL for anything other than rent arrears. When we got on to the second query about what to do about 'negative' arrears she (and the manager) didn't have a clue and advised me to consult my local court as it seemed like mine wasn't a straighforward reposession case (which of course it is).

So, zero confidence that I've been given the correct answers.



Can you confirm that you've done this successfully with PCOL? We're only talking 30 quids-worth of fees, so I don't want to risk predjucing the entire claim by including them. Or realistically is the worst that can happen just having the fees struck out?



Sounds reasonable enough - again though, is this what you've done in practice?

Your experience with their phone support staff is same as what I experienced. They haven’t got a clue of what they are going or how the system they are meant to be supporting works.

I’m not sure if you can add the admin fee on a PCOL claim, personally I would just leave it out. As it’s only £30 anyway.

[havensRus]

Can you confirm that you've done this successfully with PCOL? We're only talking 30 quids-worth of fees, so I don't want to risk predjucing the entire claim by including them. Or realistically is the worst that can happen just having the fees struck out?

I have added other charges, mainly utilities. The actual rent statement (I've just checked), has some of these listed only as an invoice no. and then the amount (so could be anything really), whilst some are itemised in full. I got possession, and nothing on the statement was queried.

I always send in a "witness statement" pack prior to the hearing with all relevant paperwork which include ASTs, copies of letters, invoices, deposit certs, statements of rental accounts, etc.-anything that has a relevance on the case.

I've attached a "blacked out" (a la MPs expenses method) pdf copy statement of the payment history submitted online.

Sounds reasonable enough - again though, is this what you've done in practice?

Again, yes and successfully. Also attached is another "blacked out" pdf copy of the payment history for another case submitted online that illustrates the point.

[havensRus]

I’m not sure if you can add the admin fee on a PCOL claim, personally I would just leave it out. As it’s only £30 anyway.

The PCOL fee will be added at the end of your submission. You can also add solicitors fees at that stage if you have incurred any.

[Ericthelobster]

PCOL hearing - where to claim for costs?

Soon due in court as landlord for a hearing via PossessionClaim Online...

Currently preparing my 'bundle' for the hearing: could anyone advise, where do I put in for any costs incurred? Does you just add it to bottom of the Rent Statement as an itemised entries, put it in the witness statement, or do you ask the Judge verbally?

I don't see why I shouldn't include "X" hours at £9.25 as litigant-in-person; so as a follow-up query what would be considered a reasonable number of hours to put down? I'm asking because the actual number is embarrassingly and certainly untenably high , not having done this before; so I'd like to claim for realistic and fair figure...

[johnjw]

Though your claim for time spent would be absolutely justified, I think I wouldn't make the claim myself. In my (thankfully limited) experience, judges are totally dismissive when it comes to claiming legal expenses such as Solicitors bills and I'd suggest that you may meet the same attitude with respect to a charge for your own time spent on the litigation.

[Ericthelobster]

Currently preparing my 'bundle' for the hearing: could anyone advise, where do I put in for any costs incurred?

Just thought I'd follow up this thread post-court hearing, as I always find it interesting and useful to hear the outcome of others' experiences...

I decided not to include my own litigant costs, and the judge asked me about my costs at the end of the hearing. I thought 'oh well', and said 'Um, er, er, er, other than the court fee, there's just costs as my litigant-in-person really'. He said that would have been entirely reasonable especially given the 'excellent quality' of my witness statement/bundle(!) but that the other side (who didn't show up to the hearing) would need to have had the opportunity of reviewing my costs first. Advised me to look at the Civil Procedure rules about this online (I just have, but they're as clear as mud to me!).

With reference to the unfortunate error in my PCOL application (see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=21706) I decided to keep schtum and hope for the best - fortunately it wasn't spotted! and I duly got my notice of possession.

One other point which is worthy of mention: there's been discussion here about whether with PCOL you should submit your bundle in advance or just take it along on the day of the hearing. I opted for the latter, and although it wasn't a big issue and the judge did gladly accept it, he did say that it would have been much better if I'd pre-submitted it so he'd have had time to read it beforehand.

[havensRus]

Just thought I'd follow up this thread post-court hearing, as I always find it interesting and useful to hear the outcome of others' experiences...


With reference to the unfortunate error in my PCOL application .... I decided to keep schtum and hope for the best - fortunately it wasn't spotted! and I duly got my notice of possession.

Glad it went well for you.

One other point which is worthy of mention: there's been discussion here about whether with PCOL you should submit your bundle in advance or just take it along on the day of the hearing. I opted for the latter, and although it wasn't a big issue and the judge did gladly accept it, he did say that it would have been much better if I'd pre-submitted it so he'd have had time to read it beforehand.

That indeed is why I submit the pack a week before the hearing as i mentioned in this thread
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=21973

It would also take care of "the other side reviewing costs before the hearing"

Hope the T leaves on the due date.

[Ericthelobster]

That indeed is why I submit the pack a week before the hearing as i mentioned in this thread
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=21973

Thanks I'd read that - however others elsewhere had also said that it wasn't necessary in their experience. I was thinking that if I submitted one pack to the court I'd have to send one to the tenant too, and therefore why show him my hand beforehand if I didn't need to? (especially with that error in the form...!)

Hope the T leaves on the due date.

Yeah right... I have the proverbial ostrich with his head in the sand here: I haven't the slightest hope he will go quietly unfortunately.

Incidental question... I got a money judgement as well as the possession order, but I won't know the full extent of that until T actually leaves (and I tot up the total rent and deduct the balance of his deposit etc) - can I do anything at all about enforcing that in the meantime, or is that on 'hold' till he's gone?

[havensRus]

Thanks I'd read that - however others elsewhere had also said that it wasn't necessary in their experience. I was thinking that if I submitted one pack to the court I'd have to send one to the tenant too, and therefore why show him my hand beforehand if I didn't need to? (especially with that error in the form...!)

Experiences obviously differ - dependent on the judge. I have found judges more appreciative of having the info to hand prior. Enables the "system" to be more efficient with court time.

Yeah right... I have the proverbial ostrich with his head in the sand here: I haven't the slightest hope he will go quietly unfortunately.

Hmmn... you never know. I had one that I thought was going to sit tight for bailiffs, but went before the day!! Then again, the court order might just wake him up and he may decide to co-operate and start paying back the arrear. I've got one doing just that now. We came to a payment arrangement which she has kept, and she's just got herself a new higher paying job so she can get her life back on track and out of debt. Fingers crossed!!

Incidental question... I got a money judgement as well as the possession order, but I won't know the full extent of that until T actually leaves (and I tot up the total rent and deduct the balance of his deposit etc) - can I do anything at all about enforcing that in the meantime, or is that on 'hold' till he's gone?

How was the money judgement stated then? I tend to ask for and get judgement based on a fixed amount, which is the monies owed to date of hearing (arrears-deposit) plus a fixed amount per day (annual rent/365) until T moves out.
I've not yet tried to enforce judgement prior to possession day. However, nothing stops you starting the enforcement process whilst T's whereabouts are still known-particularly if T is working and you can get attachment of earnings.

[Ericthelobster]

How was the money judgement stated then? I tend to ask for and get judgement based on a fixed amount, which is the monies owed to date of hearing (arrears-deposit) plus a fixed amount per day (annual rent/365) until T moves out.

It was a fixed amount up to the end of this month (ie, next rent date) and then daily rate thereafter. (He gave T 28 days to leave, so that's after the next rent date).

nothing stops you starting the enforcement process whilst T's whereabouts are still known-particularly if T is working and you can get attachment of earnings.

Well, that was exactly my hope - especially as this bloke has a well-paid job. Haven't been able to establish what the problem is about paying rent but suspect he must have a problem with something like drugs/booze/gambling...

Can I proceed now as if I'd just won a Small Claim against him, or what? Presumably he won't have CCJ registered against him yet - will that happen before the total amount of the sum owed is known?

[rizwany84]

Possession Claim On Line (PCOL)- help re procedure

Hi

I am going to be PCOL to claim possession of my property. I have a few queries that I need some help with:

Step 5 Claim Particulars (Rented Residential Premises)
1. Current rent – This is what is written in my tenancy agreement “The Rent shall be £260.00 every fortnight during 14.11.2008 until 23.01.2009, payable in advance. Thereafter the rent shall be £270.00 every fortnight during 06.02.2009 until 29.10.2010, payable in advance” The tenant stopped paying from April, so should I write £270.00?
2. Reason for possession – Should I write the full text of each ground, or just the ground numbers ie Grounds 8, 10 & 11?
3. Recovery steps already taken – Should I write dates of letters written regarding outstanding rent or something else?
4. Notice type – is it ‘Notice seeking possession’ if I have issued a section 8?
5. Defendant circumstances – what kind of details do they require?
6. Financial information – I am owed the rent arrears, What else could I write?

Step 6 Payment History
In my AST I have stated late payments are charged at £15.00 per late payment. Should this be included in the ‘Amount Due’? If not where do I list this?

Last question, where could I write any charges for my actual time doing this process and not using a solicitor, if I could?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[davidjohnbutton]

1. Current rent means rent that is presently being paid - so yes, thats £270
2. Put "Rent arrears. Total accumulated £x at (date). Possession is claimed under Ground 8, 10 and/or 11 of Schedule 2 Housing Act 1988 as amended by Housing Act 1996. Arrears represent x months. Also, persistent delay in rent payments. (I nearly lost a case for a client when the solicitor for the tenant pointed out that this was not mentioned in the claim)
3. Write dates of letters sent or statements supplied and any other contact you have had chasing the arrears.
4. Yes, Notice Seeking Possession (for an AST)
5. Whatever you know about their finances - whether claimed HB/LHA, whether working, children, elderly are examples.
6. Say something like the Claimant is unable to fully discharge his own committments because of the failure of the defendant to pay rent lawfully due.

Your late payment fee is probably an unfair contract term. There is no scope for including this in the payment history which you will input step by step - best leave it out.

There is no scope within the PCOL for claiming for your own time as litigant in person. In my own experience you will probably only get the court fee awarded BUT on a couple of occasions, I have seen awards of £50 or so for time and trouble in prepping the claim and attending court, but by and large, judges seem not to pile on a few extra quid for costs on the basis that it is already usually a large judgment for the defendant.

Make sure you attend court - if you don't, the judge will probably reject the claim as they will want to hear your evidence as to up to date arrears.

[rizwany84]

Many thanks for your help david.

Just one last question. I served a section 8 notice, and the amount I wrote was £1245 which was oustanding the late payment as well as the rent arrears as one sum (rent arears £1200 + £45 late payment fees = £1245). Should i have just wrote £1200 oustanding rent instead?

I will now enter the payment history excluding all late payment fees in PCOL, but will the wrong figure jeopardise the case?

[davidjohnbutton]

Leaving off the potentially unlawful charges on the pcol claim will not affect the claim - the judge will expect to see three different lots of figures anyway

1. At the time of issue of the S8notice
2. At the time of issue of the Summons for Possession (i.e. when you file at pcol) and
3. At the date of the hearing.

[rizwany84]

last question this time, promise.

just to make sure, the figure i wrote on section 8 was £1245 but with a typo it was printed as £1425.

Should this be a problem? The main point is the tenant is more than two months in arrears.