Buying a house with a protected tenant.

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  • Buying a house with a protected tenant.

    Yes I'm serious!

    There seems to be a lot of expertise here and all the google searching can't answer my questions.

    It's a large house. 4 Floors, 12 rooms, 1 sitting tenant with use of one floor. I intend to make an offer on the property.

    Can I do the following, does anyone know:

    1)After buying, am I able to move in with my family, living 'with' our tenant.

    2)Request (legally enforce?) to move our tenant from an upper floor to the ground floor (the ground floor is considered superior in the opinion of most, bigger windows, higher cielings etc), so I can isolate the upper floors for myself.

    Any advise greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Harper's Ash View Post
    Yes I'm serious!

    There seems to be a lot of expertise here and all the google searching can't answer my questions.

    It's a large house. 4 Floors, 12 rooms, 1 sitting tenant with use of one floor. I intend to make an offer on the property.

    Can I do the following, does anyone know:

    1)After buying, am I able to move in with my family, living 'with' our tenant.

    2)Request (legally enforce?) to move our tenant from an upper floor to the ground floor (the ground floor is considered superior in the opinion of most, bigger windows, higher cielings etc), so I can isolate the upper floors for myself.

    Any advise greatly appreciated.
    Do you have the original tenancy agreement?
    It depends how the agreement is worded, but if the T only has exclusive possesion of some of the rooms, you may be able to use the others yourself. But you will have to be careful that you do not interefere with his quiet enjoyment in a way that may be perceived as behaviour to make him want to leave..hence illegal eviction.

    You can ask him if he would consider moving down; but he will still be an assured tenant with security of tenure...it will not become an AST or contractual tenancy which you can end willy nilly.


    Seek legal advice before you move in
    All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

    * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

    You can search the forums here:

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    • #3
      Thanks for this.

      The estate agent tells me there's no paperwork whatsoever! And the tenant's been resident since pre-1989. So the fact he has one floor to himself is word of mouth.

      If the tenant did move to the ground floor as my wish I'd be very satisfied and write off that floor for life.

      Can I beg one more Qu.
      What happens in this case where no contract/paper trail can be located, therefore no proof of first date of entry and no proof of which part of the house can reside? If it makes any difference, there is one other tenant on an AST on another floor.

      Thanks

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      • #4
        You can bet your sweet bippy that if you attempt to alter your tenant's rights the necessary supporting paperwork which supports his original ones will appear like magic!

        P.P.
        Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by P.Pilcher View Post
          You can bet your sweet bippy

          P.P.
          Is this an anatomical reference? Have I led a very sheltered life?
          'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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          • #6
            The price you are buying for should be refected due to there being a protected tenant. Have you thought about buying him out? 5k or even 10k isnt that much when you consider the price should have been reduced at least that amount due to the tenant situation which would have put off a lot of buyers.

            If you can go down that route you could then get another tenant on your terms and maybe paying a lot more rent.

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            • #7
              I'm not suggesting for a moment that OP would do this, but I wonder at what point offering to buy out a sitting tenant tips over into putting pressure on them to accept the sweetener and from that into a scenario which might be construed as illegal eviction...? Tread carefully down this path - probably best done through solicitors?
              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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              • #8
                Thanks All.

                The property is significanty underpriced (£200k-£300 under).

                The tenant is a 'hermit' chap and I don't think would be interested in any amount of cash or buying out deals. He's with us till the end! But that's OK if he moves to the ground floor.

                As for the the paperwork, Pilcher, that's quite a worry. I could buy, then the paperwork appears stating he's got the entire property! Then I can't even move in.

                What a law!

                Comment


                • #9
                  You should then scrutinise the other AST; there cannot be 2 tenancies on the same area.
                  All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

                  * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

                  You can search the forums here:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                    Is this an anatomical reference? Have I led a very sheltered life?
                    Refer to Rowan & Martin's Laugh-in, where it was a catchphrase. Try http://uk.ask.com/web?q=%22Rowan+and...=196&o=0&l=dir
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bel View Post
                      You should then scrutinise the other AST; there cannot be 2 tenancies on the same area.
                      If it's governed by the Rent Act 1977, it's not an AST.
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I guess Jeffrey that this is a shared house. One suite of letting rooms occupied by a Rent Act tenant, one suite by an AST tenant. And the balance presumably vacant.

                        (I have experience of a near identical situation.)

                        No you have no right to ask the Rent Act tenant to move. (You would be entitled to ask them to move out if you had necessary repairs to undertake.)

                        The tenant is well aware that his presence reduces the value of the house by (you tell us) 200-300k. If you were to offer him that sort of money he would quite probably accept it; the usual situation is to share that sum with a tenant 50:50. However, once you threaten to move in he knows he has you over a barrel. He would almost certainly want to be paid to move into the ground floor.

                        In the event he wouldn't move down, you would be stuck with a house where you have somebody living in the middle of it. Ouch! Expensive mistake.

                        An alternative solution is to buy him a flat for him to move into. You then sell the house at the 200k profit and have a flat for free when he dies. But he might not accept this.

                        Remember, any communal areas he has rights over as well - garden? sitting room?

                        You may have trouble getting a mortgage. Banks dislike Rent Act tenants; you will not qualify for a owner occupier mortgage either.

                        You are entitled to move in with your family. But remember this person will be living around you. Moreover, remember that he has a right to quiet enjoyment; if he feels that he is being harrassed then you will likely end up in court where you will have to pay him that 200-300k following a claim for illegal eviction. If you have children that may be seen as inflamatory.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Telometer,

                          This is very useful info. The mortgage issue is a new one on me.

                          Will he definately have use of the living room, regardless of the wording of his contract?

                          And is it the case that his tenancy can be handed on to any offspring he may have in the event of his death?

                          And one more! What's the situation if he has lost his contract (as the estate agent claims)?

                          Thanks.

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                          • #14
                            Finding out about a Rent Act tenancy

                            Excuse my ignorance, but are there not some public records connected with Rent Act tenancies when Fair rents are assessed? Might they not give a hint of a description of the dwelling concerned, and how long the agreement has been in existence?

                            [by the way, my Rent Act tenant moved out completely voluntarily into an Old People's Home, when she couldn't manage the stairs any longer. So putting OP's hermit on the ground floor might not give OP the solution he wants].

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                            • #15
                              Does anyone know if protected tenant records are on public file?

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