guarantor needs advice desperately

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    guarantor needs advice desperately

    Could anybody please help me regarding a completely obnoxious landlord. I stood guarantor for my seventeen year old grandaughter 4 months ago. Her friend who is 16 had her mother stand as guarantor. I did not see the tenency agreement before I signed the guarantee form. Its only since looking on this website that I notice I should have looked at the tenacy agreement first. This landlord has threatened and intimidated my grandaughter since day one. Telling her he would send his son in the navy around to break heads if there was any problems. He has constantly phoned complaining about the girls, eventually it was mutally agreed we would get the girls to move out, although they hadn't really done anything wrong, apart from one party that neighbours complained about.

    He phoned up a couple of weeks ago to tell the girls he was coming the next day to inspect the property. They then received a letter from him saying there was hundreds of pounda of dammage and if he didn't get it he was taking the guarantors to court.

    This is when I became more involved with this gentleman. I phoned him and asked him to list all the areas of dammage etc that he was complaining about and he became abusive to me so I put the phone down. He then phoned the other guarantor to tell her he was no longer dealing with me and I was not allowed in the property.

    I ignored this and went to the property and completely cleaned it, which in my opinion was all that it needed. I left the living room blinds up to let in the sun to dry the carpets. Later that evening he went into the property without permission because a neighbour had phoned him saying the blind was up. we had decided during this period that the tenants (two young girls) were not safe with him and told him the girls where moving out, which is basically what he wanted. we moved the girls to other properties and told him we had done so. He then complained that he wanted another months rent. (He has had 5 months rent but it is a six month tenancy)

    Today we were to meet him at the property to veiw the house and discuss what if anything was wrong with it and try to bring closure to this matter. However last night he went and changed the locks and told us he had done so because some neighbour had phoned and told him there was two young lads hanging about. So technically the girls cannot go back into the property although they have not given him written notice yet, When he arrived at the property he snatched the keys from the other guarantor and stormed away telling me he was not speaking to me.

    Were do we stand in this matter I am at my wits end as what to do and would be grateful for any advice as what I can do. many thanks
    Joy

    I am sorry if this is a bit long winded

    #2
    From what you have said, it would appear that you have done the correct thing in removing the girls from his property. He could be found guilty of harassment and illegal eviction apart from anything else.

    A few questions which will help us advise you :

    Was a check-in inventory agreed at the commencement of the tenancy?
    Did he protect their tenancy deposit in a scheme?
    Now that the girls are out of the property, what exactly is your worry/fear?
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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      #3
      I didn't think an AST could be valid if any of the parties were under 18.

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        #4
        I note that both tenants were under the age of 18 - surely that renders them not legally able to sign a tenancy agreement? And if so, surely that means the same for any attached guarantor's agreement?

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          #5
          Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
          I note that both tenants were under the age of 18 - surely that renders them not legally able to sign a tenancy agreement? And if so, surely that means the same for any attached guarantor's agreement?
          Yes. A guarantor's liability cannot exceed that of the person whose liability is being guaranteed. Since T never had any liability, due to being a minor, nor did G- unless, exceptionally, G expressly covenanted (in own right, not by way of guarantee) with L.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks Guys for your responses. I thought the girls could sign if we stood as guarantors.

            My fear now is that he will take us to court and charge us for dammages that do not exist.
            Will he be able to ask for another months rent.
            We paid him two months advanced rent but no deposit.

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              #7
              sorry I should have also said there was not a check in inventory taken

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                #8
                Originally posted by joy View Post
                Thanks Guys for your responses. I thought the girls could sign if we stood as guarantors.

                My fear now is that he will take us to court and charge us for dammages that do not exist.
                Will he be able to ask for another months rent.
                We paid him two months advanced rent but no deposit.
                Do you mean you paid two months' rent at the start then no more until month 3, or has he 'held over' a month's rent for the last month? If so, it should have been treated as a depsoit ir protected in a scheme.

                He cannot realistically sue you for damages without an inventory or other objective evidence of the condiiton of the property before and after the girls lived in it, and would be mad to try - don't worry.

                Does he still have any of your money which you do not think he should have?
                'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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                  #9
                  we paid him two months rent on the 4th May 2009. Then the rent was paid again on the 4th june, 4th july 4th august. which means he has had 5months rent in a 4 month period. He told us he doesn't have anything to do with the deposit scheme when we asked.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    @joy, you really have nothing to worry about. Apart from the issue of the girls being minors and the TA therefore (probably) invalid, there is no check-in inventory to prove any damage was caused during the tenancy, LL has been evading deposit scheme legislation, and arguably harassing the girls.

                    If anything it should be you issuing a claim against LL for failing to protect the deposit (i.e. the so-called advance rent), and return of this money, as well as damages for the harassment.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by joy View Post
                      we paid him two months rent on the 4th May 2009. Then the rent was paid again on the 4th june, 4th july 4th august. which means he has had 5months rent in a 4 month period. He told us he doesn't have anything to do with the deposit scheme when we asked.
                      We have seen this wriggle before, the general opinion is that if it looks like a deposit, smells like a deposit, and acts like a deposit then it is a deposit.
                      I'm not sure how this is affected by your girls not being legally old enough to sign an AST though. It would not surprise me if some enlightened judge didn't order the LL to pay back the entire amount that the girls have paid in rent on the grounds that it was an illegal (impossible) agreement anyway. Any legal views anyone?
                      I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

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                        #12
                        See this regarding 'advance rent'.

                        http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2009/0...eposit-honest/

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by westminster View Post
                          @joy, you really have nothing to worry about. Apart from the issue of the girls being minors and the TA therefore (probably) invalid, there is no check-in inventory to prove any damage was caused during the tenancy, LL has been evading deposit scheme legislation, and arguably harassing the girls.

                          If anything it should be you issuing a claim against LL for failing to protect the deposit (i.e. the so-called advance rent), and return of this money, as well as damages for the harassment.
                          Thank you for the above. What should my next move be ,write to him myself ,or instruct a solicitor?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jta View Post
                            We have seen this wriggle before, the general opinion is that if it looks like a deposit, smells like a deposit, and acts like a deposit then it is a deposit.
                            I'm not sure how this is affected by your girls not being legally old enough to sign an AST though. It would not surprise me if some enlightened judge didn't order the LL to pay back the entire amount that the girls have paid in rent on the grounds that it was an illegal (impossible) agreement anyway. Any legal views anyone?
                            It's probably a good defence, but yes, LL ought to pay back all the rent. So it's a lose-lose situation for LL.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Sorry I meant to ask is he not allowed to ask for two months rent in advance.

                              Comment

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