Seeking possession- 1988 Act Notices without solicitor

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    Seeking possession- 1988 Act Notices without solicitor

    Hi all,

    My T. moved into my property on the 24th April on a 6 month AST. The rent is £950 pcm. Since the start of the tenancy she has only paid £1090 in 3 seperate payments. I have had all the excusess and now realise I've got more chance of getting blood out of a stone.
    I have just issued her with a section 8 citing grounds 8, 10 & 11. I know that I have to give her 14 days to get the arrears sorted but what happens then?
    Do I go to the local court and get a hearing "booked" in?
    I see on the forms there is a space for solicitor costs so going back to the thread will I need one for court?

    Your help will be very much appreciated.

    #2
    If you use a specialist solicitor who knows their stuff then expect to pay £800 to £1,000 for their services; cheap solicitors will not get it right.

    You can make a personal application to the court or do it online; courts are quite helpful and will give you guidance.
    The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

    Comment


      #3
      once the s8 notice has expired you can issue proceedings. You can get a solicitor to do this, or you can fill in the forms.

      once issued the court will list a hearing date. If T does not defend then you will get a possession order.

      If T does defend and is able to show that it is disputed that the arrears are as high as 2 months then you might not get a possession order. What I mean by this is that if T claims there is disrepair or other such claims they can seek damages from you that would therefore (if accepted) reduce the arrears to less than 2 months.

      Your other option is to issue a section 21 notice, however that notice would not expire until (by your dates) 23 October 2009.

      If you do use a solicitor check the hourly rates and get an estimate of what it will cost all the way to trial. You might decide to issue the claim yourself and then if it gets complicated instruct a solicitor.
      PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Paul Gibbs View Post
        Your other option is to issue a section 21 notice, however that notice would not expire until (by your dates) 23 October 2009.
        Might it not be sensible to issue the section 21 notice as a "belt and braces" approach?
        Mrs Jones
        I am not an expert - my posts are my opinion and should not be taken as fact!!

        Comment


          #5
          It is indeed always sensible to issue a section 21 notice as a back-up to a secton 8,10 and 11 action.

          P.P.
          Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Mrs Jones View Post
            Might it not be sensible to issue the section 21 notice as a "belt and braces" approach?
            Not sure, would not cause any harm, but I would certainly hope to get a PO under s8 before October!
            PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

            Comment


              #7
              you cant seek possession under s.21 of the housing act during the first six months of the tenancy.

              You would have to file under ground 8 - which is 8 weeks plus arrears.

              As a warning have you secured the tenants deposit? many tenants are seeking court judgements against landlords due to deposits not being secured under the provisions of the housing act 2004. Any such judgement could be offset against rent arrears.....

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by creswell View Post
                you cant seek possession under s.21 of the housing act during the first six months of the tenancy.
                You can still issue a s.21 notice at any time - it just won't be effective until earliest 6 months after the start of the term. AT least if it is issued "belt and braces" now, it is one less thing to think about should you want to use it in lieu of the s.8 notice after the expiry of six months.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by creswell View Post
                  you cant seek possession under s.21 of the housing act during the first six months of the tenancy.
                  I think most people know that, which I don't think is the issue here, but you CAN serve a S.21 Notice at anytime during the fixed term even if it's just for 6 months, which might make your post slightly misleading.
                  The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I can confirm my advice (as supported by several others) that serving an S21 notice has no effect on any S8 action as it was given to me in court by a C.C. Judge. I was attempting to obtain an eviction under s8 and tenant had all the free advisors under the sun and had delayed as long as she could.
                    The judge looked at me in despair and quietly asked "I don't suppose you have also started a S21 action have you. I quietly replied "Yes sir, notice expires in two weeks."
                    "Can you possibly wait that long?" He enquired.
                    I distinctly read "Nudge nudge, wink wink" in his expression.
                    "Right - mark the court papers for my attention please, this is getting ridiculous." He ended the case against a barrage of complaints from my tenant's representatives.
                    Two weeks later I did as instructed and lo - the possession order appeared on my doormat almost by return of post!

                    P.P.
                    Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Have I made a mistake with the section 8

                      My T moved in to the property on the 24th April. The rent is £950pcm.

                      On the 12th June I received £300 on the 18th June £500 and then £290 on the 1st of July. These are the only payments made and I have written promises etc that it will " All be sorted out" (yeah Yeah)

                      On the 25th of July I issued her with a section 8 because in my mind she was then 2 months in arrears. Will the court see it that way although at the point of issue theoreticaly she had paid £140 off Junes rent!!!

                      I'm in no doubt she knows all the tricks in the book and has sent me a letter saying I can only contact her in writing.

                      She had a 6 month AST and the deposit has been secured.
                      Should I wait until the 24th of this month and issue another section 8. I will be issuing a section 21 as belt & braces

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Are you sure about your figures? From what you have said you let her move in paying only the deposit and not the first months rent, is that right?

                        I have no idea but it would be more normal to have had the deposit and the first months rent - so she was up to date until the 24th May.

                        She then owed you 950 - by the 23rd of June she had paid you 800 pounds so was 150 in arrears.

                        On the 24th of June she owed you 950 + 150 = 1100 on the 1st July she paid you 290 leaving 810 outstanding.

                        On the 24th July she owed you 810 + 950 = 1760 so on this basis she is under 2 months owing so your s8 will fail if you are relying solely on the 2 months provision. Not an expert but I doubt this is long enough to successfully rely on the disretionary persitent late payment option.

                        Using a section 21 seems wise in any event as she is on a 6 months tenancy as that can kick in in October.

                        As you say unless she makes further payments before the 24th August issue another section 8 then but be aware that that will fail as well if she reduces the money owed to less than 2 months by the court date. Hopefully the fact that you have issued a Section 8, even if flawed, will show her you are serious and she will pay up.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by creswell View Post
                          you cant seek possession under s.21 of the housing act during the first six months of the tenancy.

                          You would have to file under ground 8 - which is 8 weeks plus arrears.
                          Both those points are simply wrong and dangerously misleading.
                          SECTION 21: An Order can be obtained during AST fixed term, but it cannot grant possession until end of term or thereafdter.
                          SECTION 8: there are seventeen grounds. If 'creswell' meant g8, it demands only eight weeks' [or, if rent is due monthly, two months'] rent unpaid.
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            Both those points are simply wrong and dangerously misleading.
                            SECTION 21: An Order can be obtained during AST fixed term, but it cannot grant possession until end of term or thereafdter.
                            SECTION 8: there are seventeen grounds. If 'creswell' meant g8, it demands only eight weeks' [or, if rent is due monthly, two months'] rent unpaid.
                            How are they wrong?

                            my point was simply to highlight that the tenancy is protected during the first six months from s.21 (accelerated possesion - no ground required),..which everyone apparently knows, so sorry for mentioning this. I know you can serve a section 21b notice at the start of the tenancy to co-incide with the tenancy dates. You can obtain a PO on any other ground, before the fixed term has ended if a Court sanctions it. I have never seen a possession order obtained on a s.21 basis before six months has elapsed if thats what you meant. It would simply get thrown out of County Court in London.

                            and yes i meant ground 8, I am well aware of the different grounds.....

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Again: a Possession Order under s.21(1)(b) can certainly be sought and obtained during the fixed term.
                              As to s.8, you were wrong in post #7 when stating "You would have to file under ground 8 - which is 8 weeks plus arrears".
                              Why would one have to file under g8, and why did you claim that it demands 'eight weeks plus arrears'? What could this latter phrase possibly mean- eight weeks' rent plus what arrears?
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

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