Rights to open a fair dispute with deposit scheme agains L

[mephisto]

Hi,
I've moved out from a flat few weeks ago, after 15 days I've got a letter from my L about the deductions from my deposit of £589 from £1109, and L did the deposit of the rest into my account. The problem is that L in the day of inspection/keys didn't say anything about the flat, inspects everything with me and give me a paper to fill my details of bank account, sign and done. So I assumed that she didn't found anything wrong and everything was fine. Another problem was that I never got any detail about my deposit scheme, even after asked her several times she never gave me any detail. I only got a clue about my protection scheme 2 weeks before leaving the house after calling her several times, send emails and complain a lot. Well, she deducted money from a mark on the floor that was already there when I moved in, cleaning the outside of the windows (was on the contract saying that I was supposed to clean it every 2 months but I never did because they were already very dirty when I moved ) and deduction for 2 late payments I did, due to L not providing repairs when asked.

flat:
-no inventory list
-L didn't leave her address, asked several times and she never gave me
-wash machine didn't work
-without door in toiled for 5 months ( was agreen before moving in that she would put the door, but in the day I moved in she gave me lot of excuses)
-sink without pipe for 3 months
-boiler broke down 7 times, several safety warnings from british gas left
-sofas changed after signed contract just before I moved in
-flooring very uneven and loose in some places
-storage was put a pad lock during tenancy without notice (there were some refurbishment tools inside, less than 1/4 full)
-front of the house was with rubbish for 2 months, L always giving excuses to not clean it
-window in the bedroom leaking loads of air from outside when closed, after several months was sealed with screws
-hole in the flooring from where some bugs came from underneath frequently
-kitchen radiator never worked
-day of my marriage in January 2009 during heavy winter, boiler broke as usual, me and my wife had to take a shower using glass of water
-2 weeks before moving out the waste water leaking from the upper floor, dirty and smelly water falling in my bath and L didn't fix it (I took photos and recorded videos of this leaking)

I would like to know your opinion of what I can do in this case honestly, because I always took care of everything like it was my flat, but the L is taking advantage trying to make me pay for her faults/problems that were there before I moved in.
Thank you for any advice!

[mephisto]

please, I would really appreciate some advice, I need to open a dispute in the next following days, thank you!

[westminster]

after 15 days I've got a letter from my L about the deductions from my deposit of £589 from £1109, and L did the deposit of the rest into my account....
Another problem was that I never got any detail about my deposit scheme, even after asked her several times she never gave me any detail. I only got a clue about my protection scheme 2 weeks before leaving the house after calling her several times, send emails and complain a lot.

It's not clear from this whether the deposit was protected or not? You refer to opening a dispute in your post today... So, I assume the deposit is still protected? But then how did the L do "the deposit of the rest into my account" if you haven't released the deposit?

-no inventory list

Without a condition report at commencement of tenancy, LL will find it very hard to prove you caused any damage.

L didn't leave her address, asked several times and she never gave me

LL only has to provide a contact address, which may not necessarily be their own address; for example, it may be a letting agency address.

wash machine didn't work

Does the tenancy agreement state that LL is responsible for this?

without door in toiled for 5 months ( was agreen before moving in that she would put the door, but in the day I moved in she gave me lot of excuses)
-sink without pipe for 3 months
-boiler broke down 7 times, several safety warnings from british gas left
sofas changed after signed contract just before I moved in
-flooring very uneven and loose in some places
-storage was put a pad lock during tenancy without notice (there were some refurbishment tools inside, less than 1/4 full)
-front of the house was with rubbish for 2 months, L always giving excuses to not clean it
-window in the bedroom leaking loads of air from outside when closed, after several months was sealed with screws
-hole in the flooring from where some bugs came from underneath frequently
-kitchen radiator never worked
-day of my marriage in January 2009 during heavy winter, boiler broke as usual, me and my wife had to take a shower using glass of water
-2 weeks before moving out the waste water leaking from the upper floor, dirty and smelly water falling in my bath and L didn't fix it (I took photos and recorded videos of this leaking)

However valid these complaints, how are they relevant to the dispute over deductions from the deposit?

Well, she deducted money from a mark on the floor that was already there when I moved in, cleaning the outside of the windows (was on the contract saying that I was supposed to clean it every 2 months but I never did because they were already very dirty when I moved ) and deduction for 2 late payments I did, due to L not providing repairs when asked.....I would like to know your opinion of what I can do in this case honestly, because I always took care of everything like it was my flat

1) Mark on the floor - LL cannot deduct for this as she cannot prove you caused the mark
2) Windows - I may be wrong but I think LL can claim for this. You cannot prove they were dirty when you moved in, nor is it an excuse for not carrying out T's obligations.
3) 2 late payments - If you mean you did not pay the full rent, then LL is entitled to do this if you did not follow the correct procedure for making rent deductions for repairs you carried out. If you mean you just paid your rent late, then LL cannot impose a financial penalty for this (unless perhaps there is such a provision in your tenancy agreement?)

All you can do is open a dispute with the deposit scheme, and LL will then have to prove you owe the deductions.

[mephisto]

It's not clear from this whether the deposit was protected or not? You refer to opening a dispute in your post today... So, I assume the deposit is still protected? But then how did the L do "the deposit of the rest into my account" if you haven't released the deposit?

It was protected but I didn't have any information about it since I moved in because the LL never gave any detail of it, I asked her several times to provide me the legal information about the deposit scheme of my deposit and only 3 weeks before moving out that she gave me the details needed for me to check which deposit scheme was used.

Without a condition report at commencement of tenancy, LL will find it very hard to prove you caused any damage.

That is good to know, because seems to me that she planned this

LL only has to provide a contact address, which may not necessarily be their own address; for example, it may be a letting agency address.

The problem was that she provide the contact address as my own address. She used to live in the flat just before I moved in, and left that address as her only contact, plus a mobile phone that was really hard to find her because most of the time was switched off.

Does the tenancy agreement state that LL is responsible for this?

No, it doesn't, but I've viewed the house with the washing machine there, so I assumed it was working fine. For what I know if an appliance is in there when I sign the contract, it should be maintained by the LL, isn't it? in this case, after 2 weeks complaining I decided to buy a new one for me to avoid even more problems.

However valid these complaints, how are they relevant to the dispute over deductions from the deposit?

Perhaps they can be useful because can proof the lack of responsibility and basic maintenance of the property, that she was breaking the contract well in the beginning of the contract

1) Mark on the floor - LL cannot deduct for this as she cannot prove you caused the mark

The day I moved in, she was still cleaning the house, and I saw her trying to mop the mark on the floor very strongly, it was there and she knew it.

2) Windows - I may be wrong but I think LL can claim for this. You cannot prove they were dirty when you moved in, nor is it an excuse for not carrying out T's obligations.

Yes, is my fault, but I the flat was on the second floor ? I don't know if this sort of clause can be abusive, maybe it is.

3) 2 late payments - If you mean you did not pay the full rent, then LL is entitled to do this if you did not follow the correct procedure for making rent deductions for repairs you carried out. If you mean you just paid your rent late, then LL cannot impose a financial penalty for this (unless perhaps there is such a provision in your tenancy agreement?)

There is a provision about late payment, in case of 2 days is due, 4% per annum above the basic rate of HBOS plc for the time being in force calculated on a daily basis from the date upon which teh same became payable until the date of payment

on 30/09/2008 I paid 50% of the deposit because I was without the basic repairs she assured me before I moved in that would be done ASAP plus boiler not working, I could not ring her phone because was all the time switched off.
For a 4 days due sum of £369 (50%), she charged me £118.24

again in march 2009, she didn't sorted problems and basic maintenance, same problems and being very difficult to ring her due to same problem with switched off phone. I delayed the payment for 5 days until I've got a word from her assuring she was going to send someone to fix the problems in the flat. 5 days overdue of £739 (100% of rent) £147.80 deducted this time from my deposit.

All you can do is open a dispute with the deposit scheme, and LL will then have to prove you owe the deductions.

She could have told me any problem in the day she did the inspection isn't it ? Is there a obligation to do this in the end of tenancy? Because I think there is no meaning in inspection in the last day if anything about the inspection will be sorted out later.

One of the problems was with a wardrobe, I changed the order of the shelves to have better space for my clothes, she deducted £80 to call someone to change 4 shelves! I could have done this in 5 minutes if she had told me in the day I was leaving, and anyway I left 2 days before the end of tenancy, I have 2 more days to sort any problem. Don't you think she was unfair with me?

Thank you very much for your help, I really appreciate it.

[justaboutsane]

If she had no inventory that is her problem and not yours. SHE has to prove all these issues.

She cannot charge the amounts she has for the "late rent". So ignore this for now.

Open a disute re the deposit and let her prove that she has a right to the money.

[westminster]

It was protected but I didn't have any information about it since I moved in because the LL never gave any detail of it, I asked her several times to provide me the legal information about the deposit scheme of my deposit and only 3 weeks before moving out that she gave me the details needed for me to check which deposit scheme was used.

It's still not clear to me whether the full deposit - £1109 - is still protected?

The problem was that she provide the contact address as my own address. She used to live in the flat just before I moved in, and left that address as her only contact, plus a mobile phone that was really hard to find her because most of the time was switched off.

For future reference, the LL must legally provide you with some kind of contact address. However, this issue is not relevant to the deposit deductions.

No, it doesn't, but I've viewed the house with the washing machine there, so I assumed it was working fine. For what I know if an appliance is in there when I sign the contract, it should be maintained by the LL, isn't it? in this case, after 2 weeks complaining I decided to buy a new one for me to avoid even more problems.

Again, for future reference, you must get such things agreed in writing. Don't assume anything.

Perhaps they can be useful because can proof the lack of responsibility and basic maintenance of the property, that she was breaking the contract well in the beginning of the contract

No, they are not relevant to whether or not you are liable for the deductions.

There is a provision about late payment, in case of 2 days is due, 4% per annum above the basic rate of HBOS plc for the time being in force calculated on a daily basis from the date upon which teh same became payable until the date of payment

on 30/09/2008 I paid 50% of the deposit because I was without the basic repairs she assured me before I moved in that would be done ASAP plus boiler not working, I could not ring her phone because was all the time switched off.
For a 4 days due sum of £369 (50%), she charged me £118.24

again in march 2009, she didn't sorted problems and basic maintenance, same problems and being very difficult to ring her due to same problem with switched off phone. I delayed the payment for 5 days until I've got a word from her assuring she was going to send someone to fix the problems in the flat. 5 days overdue of £739 (100% of rent) £147.80 deducted this time from my deposit.

These sums charged for late payment are ridiculous and bear no relation to the percentage per annum in the tenancy agreement.

Again, you seem to be saying that a sum has actually been deducted - how is this possible if the deposit is protected?

For future reference, do not use rent payments as leverage to try to make the LL carry out repairs. This is not a constructive way to go about it. Ask on this forum for advice if you have a similar problem in future.

She could have told me any problem in the day she did the inspection isn't it ? Is there a obligation to do this in the end of tenancy? Because I think there is no meaning in inspection in the last day if anything about the inspection will be sorted out later.

One of the problems was with a wardrobe, I changed the order of the shelves to have better space for my clothes, she deducted £80 to call someone to change 4 shelves! I could have done this in 5 minutes if she had told me in the day I was leaving, and anyway I left 2 days before the end of tenancy, I have 2 more days to sort any problem. Don't you think she was unfair with me?

The normal procedure would be for a professional, independent, inventory/condition report check-out to be carried out at the end of the tenancy, and the claim for any deductions would be made on that basis.

£80 for moving 4 shelves sounds ridiculous. Also, LL cannot prove original position of the shelves.

As justaboutsane says, the LL has to prove you are responsible for any deductions. It doesn't sound like she can.

But please clarify whether you have already released any of the deposit to the LL?

[mephisto]

It's still not clear to me whether the full deposit - £1109 - is still protected?

It is not anymore, few days ago I've received a letter from mydeposits few days ago saying my deposit has been unprotected

These sums charged for late payment are ridiculous and bear no relation to the percentage per annum in the tenancy agreement.

Seems she calculated by day, not per annum.

Again, you seem to be saying that a sum has actually been deducted - how is this possible if the deposit is protected?

the deposit was protected, on the day of the inspection she gave me a paper with the details of the flat and i signed with my bank details to have my deposit back

For future reference, do not use rent payments as leverage to try to make the LL carry out repairs. This is not a constructive way to go about it. Ask on this forum for advice if you have a similar problem in future.

I know it is not a good practice, but unfortunately was my only option that time, during the winter without boiler and a window leaking air from outside is something that I don't want to have anymore.

The normal procedure would be for a professional, independent, inventory/condition report check-out to be carried out at the end of the tenancy, and the claim for any deductions would be made on that basis.

£80 for moving 4 shelves sounds ridiculous. Also, LL cannot prove original position of the shelves.

As justaboutsane says, the LL has to prove you are responsible for any deductions. It doesn't sound like she can.

But please clarify whether you have already released any of the deposit to the LL?

She could have told me to move the shelves back to the original place, I would do it straight away, it is no hard to change it in 5 minutes I think.
I didn't understand exactly what do you mean be release the deposit I've just signed to have my deposit back, without any deduction because everything seemed to be fine. I don't know if I did wrong signing it, but she told me that was the only way to get the deposit back.

Thank you for your time explaining all of this.

[westminster]

It is not anymore, few days ago I've received a letter from mydeposits few days ago saying my deposit has been unprotected...
the deposit was protected, on the day of the inspection she gave me a paper with the details of the flat and i signed with my bank details to have my deposit back

So you've released the deposit. This means you can't start a dispute with the TDS. (In future, do not sign anything agreeing to release the deposit if you are not 100% sure what you are signing).

I suggest you contact the TDS first, but I think the only way you can now get your money back is by issuing a court claim against the LL. You can do this online at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp
However, I suggest you first seek advice at either a Law Centre or Citizen's Advice Bureau, as I think you could benefit from some help in writing the particulars of the claim, with someone who can see all the documents you have.

See
http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/lawcentres/detail/find/
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index.htm

I know it is not a good practice, but unfortunately was my only option that time, during the winter without boiler and a window leaking air from outside is something that I don't want to have anymore.

Withholding rent is not your only option. As I said, if you have similar problems in future, come back on the forum for advice.

[mephisto]

So you've released the deposit. This means you can't start a dispute with the TDS. (In future, do not sign anything agreeing to release the deposit if you are not 100% sure what you are signing).

I suggest you contact the TDS first, but I think the only way you can now get your money back is by issuing a court claim against the LL. You can do this online at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp
However, I suggest you first seek advice at either a Law Centre or Citizen's Advice Bureau, as I think you could benefit from some help in writing the particulars of the claim, with someone who can see all the documents you have.

See
http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/lawcentres/detail/find/
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index.htm


Withholding rent is not your only option. As I said, if you have similar problems in future, come back on the forum for advice.

But if I have released the deposit without any information regarding the amount deducted, how can she do it ? I think I've just agreed to have my deposit back, in any way I agreed with the amount deducted, do you think I still can't open a complain with the deposit scheme any more ?

[westminster]

But if I have released the deposit without any information regarding the amount deducted, how can she do it ?
I think I've just agreed to have my deposit back, in any way I agreed with the amount deducted

It sounds like you signed something the landlord gave you about the deposit when you moved out - what you signed may have included an agreement to the deductions? (do you have a copy? if so, what does it say?) Then you got some of your deposit back from the landlord - not the full amount? Then you got a letter from the deposit scheme confirming this?

do you think I still can't open a complain with the deposit scheme any more ?

Unlikely if you have already given your agreement to release the deposit. But call them to find out.

I'm still not sure exactly what has happened. Your description is very confusing. Has part or all of the deposit been returned to you?

[mephisto]

It sounds like you signed something the landlord gave you about the deposit when you moved out - what you signed may have included an agreement to the deductions? (do you have a copy? if so, what does it say?) Then you got some of your deposit back from the landlord - not the full amount? Then you got a letter from the deposit scheme confirming this?

the letter from the scheme confirms that my deposit has been unprotected, what I signed was just with details of the house, without any deduction and any mention to any damage, unfortunately I don't have a copy, I was in a hurry to go away from that property that I did the mistake to not get a copy of it, but I'm sure it didn't have anything related to damage/deposit/deduction
I've got only half of my deposit back, 15 days after leave the flat.

Unlikely if you have already given your agreement to release the deposit. But call them to find out.

I'm still not sure exactly what has happened. Your description is very confusing. Has part or all of the deposit been returned to you?

I've released the deposit in the condition that the full amount should be given to me, so I called mydeposits today and found that I can open a dispute (90 days after end tenancy) but I need my deposit certificate, something that the LL never gave me and I still don't have it. I've sent an email to mydeposits asking for a deposit certificate to be able to open a dispute, so hopefully will be sent during the next following days.
only half of the deposit has been returned to me.

thanks for your time helping me.