Holding back last months rent !

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  • Holding back last months rent !

    Hi,
    We are moving out of a property on 26th April and have a few querys reguarding this :-

    We are not 100% sure that the landlord will give us back our full deposit,
    there is nothing wrong with the house at all, but by the way he words he emails about this, you wouldn't trust him, so as a precaution we have cancelled our last months rent, this is the same amount as our bond.

    He has now sent us an email after 5 days threating us with court proceedings if we dont pay straight away, is this just a scary tactic to get us to pay and if we dont what could happen.

    If we don't pay then our bond won't be returned to us at the end of the months, but we will be equal with money after that.

    Also he refuse's to answer his phone when you call him to discuss things about the property, for instance, there is a major crack in the fuse box and the electrics in the out house that is next to the house are not earthed, he sent a electrican out at beginning of the year to do a safety check and he told us that these 2 things were totally unsafe and should be condemed, he then reported this back to him, but as yet the landlord has done nothing about these issues, is this a breach of his contract as a landlord ?

  • #2
    Have you written to the LL about these problems?
    This is probably in a clause in your agreement.
    Tbh it is not really up to you to decide that the LL won't give you the money back.
    Why would you think that unless you though you had possibly not kept the property or intend to return it in the same state as you found it?
    Are you covered by the deposit legislation?
    Send a letter stating your intentions and give your LL a proper right to reply ie 7 day letter signed for.
    If he doesn't reply then he is ignorant and fair enough his loss.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by da_melonuk View Post
      We are moving out of a property on 26th April...
      We are not 100% sure that the landlord will give us back our full deposit,
      there is nothing wrong with the house at all, but by the way he words he emails about this, you wouldn't trust him, so as a precaution we have cancelled our last months rent, this is the same amount as our bond.

      He has now sent us an email after 5 days threating us with court proceedings if we dont pay straight away, is this just a scary tactic to get us to pay and if we dont what could happen.

      If we don't pay then our bond won't be returned to us at the end of the months, but we will be equal with money after that.

      Also he refuse's to answer his phone when you call him to discuss things about the property, for instance, there is a major crack in the fuse box and the electrics in the out house that is next to the house are not earthed, he sent a electrican out at beginning of the year to do a safety check and he told us that these 2 things were totally unsafe and should be condemed, he then reported this back to him, but as yet the landlord has done nothing about these issues, is this a breach of his contract as a landlord ?
      What makes you doubt:
      a. L's honesty; and
      b. that he will repay your deposit?

      I do not think that your conduct is all that honest, in fact. Why should L not sue for your admitted breach of rent-payment obligation?
      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
        What makes you doubt:
        a. L's honesty; and
        b. that he will repay your deposit?

        I do not think that your conduct is all that honest, in fact. Why should L not sue for your admitted breach of rent-payment obligation?
        We doubt the landlord honesty by the way he words his emails about us moving out of the house, ie, when we emailed him three times reguarding querys about the process of moving out, deposit back, etc, he emailed back and told us what would happen and the times it would happen and that he wasn't spending anymore time dealing with us because we were taking up too much of his time.

        He doesn't work, he has approx 65 propertys to look after, so should be used to getting lots of querys from tennats.
        He has never answered the phone when you phone him or called us back after we leave a message.

        Comments like on his email like "I live in London and if you think I'm going to personally drive 300 miles up north with your deposit in pound coins to give it straight back to you, then you are sadly mistaken and you will get your deposit back once i have sent someone to inspect the house which might be some weeks after you move out"
        This above kind of thing in a email is one of the reasons to doubt him

        The house is in very good condition, i know this because i have decorated all the rooms to a high standard

        It's just the way he has reacted to our letter informing him we are moving out, he has turned from a decent landlord to a really snotty one about us contacting him.
        We have put this down to the fact that he may have to put new windows and heating in the house as it most proberley won't meet the energy effiencey standard because of how old the house is and the condition of the heating, etc.

        In regard to the faulty fusebox and non-earthed electrics, we have informed him about this and his electricion has also said same thing on inspectation, is this a breach of his landlord terms for his tennats ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by da_melonuk View Post
          We doubt the landlord honesty by the way he words his emails about us moving out of the house, ie, when we emailed him three times reguarding querys about the process of moving out, deposit back, etc, he emailed back and told us what would happen and the times it would happen and that he wasn't spending anymore time dealing with us because we were taking up too much of his time.

          He doesn't work, he has approx 65 propertys to look after, so should be used to getting lots of querys from tennats.
          He has never answered the phone when you phone him or called us back after we leave a message.

          Comments like on his email like "I live in London and if you think I'm going to personally drive 300 miles up north with your deposit in pound coins to give it straight back to you, then you are sadly mistaken and you will get your deposit back once i have sent someone to inspect the house which might be some weeks after you move out"
          This above kind of thing in a email is one of the reasons to doubt him

          The house is in very good condition, i know this because i have decorated all the rooms to a high standard

          It's just the way he has reacted to our letter informing him we are moving out, he has turned from a decent landlord to a really snotty one about us contacting him.
          We have put this down to the fact that he may have to put new windows and heating in the house as it most proberley won't meet the energy effiencey standard because of how old the house is and the condition of the heating, etc.
          OK. That sounds a more cogent explanation than previously vouchsafed, even though I do not agree with it!

          Originally posted by da_melonuk View Post
          In regard to the faulty fusebox and non-earthed electrics, we have informed him about this and his electricion has also said same thing on inspectation, is this a breach of his landlord terms for his tenants ?
          Yes. Under s.11 of LTA 1985, L is inescapably liable for the electrical installations.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            OK. That sounds a more cogent explanation than previously vouchsafed, even though I do not agree with it!


            Yes. Under s.11 of LTA 1985, L is inescapably liable for the electrical installations.
            So if he threated us with legal action for the last months rent, even though he would keep our bond, so technical we would we equal, could i take legal action against him for the above faults with the electric under s.11 of LTA 1985 ?

            Comment


            • #7
              You need to bear in mind that you might need a landlord's reference from him at some point in the future if you choose to rent again. Also, if he obtained a county court judgement against you that would serverely damage your credit rating.

              Having said that, his comment about the deposit being returned after "several weeks" seriously annoyed me. There is no excuse for the check out to not occur on the last day of the tenancy and for the deposit to be returned very quickly thereafter if there aren't any issues. Too many landlords regard the deposit as a pot into which they want to dip as much as possible. Given that the expect it to be paid over on or before the day the tenancy commences, there is no excuse for similar urgency to not be applied to dealing with it at term.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Seminole View Post
                You need to bear in mind that you might need a landlord's reference from him at some point in the future if you choose to rent again. Also, if he obtained a county court judgement against you that would serverely damage your credit rating.

                Having said that, his comment about the deposit being returned after "several weeks" seriously annoyed me. There is no excuse for the check out to not occur on the last day of the tenancy and for the deposit to be returned very quickly thereafter if there aren't any issues. Too many landlords regard the deposit as a pot into which they want to dip as much as possible. Given that the expect it to be paid over on or before the day the tenancy commences, there is no excuse for similar urgency to not be applied to dealing with it at term.
                Yeah, well we thought that we could arrange for this deposit issue to happen on the last day of our tenancy, but that is a Sunday and he was unwilling to make it happen unless we paid him £50 upfront for someone to come out to the house on that day, he then said that "it wasn't his fault we had chosen to
                move out on a Sunday", he should know that our last agreed date for living in the house is Sunday and therefore wouldn't be moving out any earlier than this, i understand about the ccj issue, but i'm quite sure he's not going to take it all the way to court just over one final months missed payment, the 1st time is 4 years it has happened, as this would cost him money and time to attend from London and also he still has our bond which is £450, same as our rent.

                So after the inspection, which will be fine by the way, he won't have lost out on rent and we won't have lost out on deposit, to me, that seems a fair and easy way to deal with this whole issue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by da_melonuk View Post
                  Yeah, well we thought that we could arrange for this deposit issue to happen on the last day of our tenancy, but that is a Sunday and he was unwilling to make it happen unless we paid him £50 upfront for someone to come out to the house on that day, he then said that "it wasn't his fault we had chosen to
                  move out on a Sunday", he should know that our last agreed date for living in the house is Sunday and therefore wouldn't be moving out any earlier than this, i understand about the ccj issue, but i'm quite sure he's not going to take it all the way to court just over one final months missed payment, the 1st time is 4 years it has happened, as this would cost him money and time to attend from London and also he still has our bond which is £450, same as our rent.

                  So after the inspection, which will be fine by the way, he won't have lost out on rent and we won't have lost out on deposit, to me, that seems a fair and easy way to deal with this whole issue.
                  Two wrongs do not make a right, and it is a little late now to start threatening to sue him about the electrics. The correct procedure is to alert the EHo who will visit and, if he feels it necessary, compel LL to effect repairs.

                  Pay your rent, as you are contracted to.

                  When you move out, leave the proeprty in the same state of cleanliness in which you found it according to the check-in inventory.

                  If he attempts to keep your deposit, dispute this. You still haven't answered the question about whether it is protected in a scheme or not. If it is, all well and good - dispute any unfair deductions through the scheme.

                  If it is not, and it should have been, then sue him for non-protection.

                  Has he protected it or not?
                  'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                    Two wrongs do not make a right, and it is a little late now to start threatening to sue him about the electrics. The correct procedure is to alert the EHo who will visit and, if he feels it necessary, compel LL to effect repairs.

                    Pay your rent, as you are contracted to.

                    When you move out, leave the proeprty in the same state of cleanliness in which you found it according to the check-in inventory.

                    If he attempts to keep your deposit, dispute this. You still haven't answered the question about whether it is protected in a scheme or not. If it is, all well and good - dispute any unfair deductions through the scheme.

                    If it is not, and it should have been, then sue him for non-protection.

                    Has he protected it or not?
                    Not sure if he has protected it or not, we moved in in August 2005, so totally unsure about this issue, also we never had a check in inventory when we moved in, but on our tenacy agreement it says "unfurnished property"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you have not signed any further tenancy agreements with this landlord since August 2005, then there is no requirement for the deposit to be placed in a scheme. This is not an issue.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Surely from the T perspective this is a bigger issue as if its not protected the T cannot call on
                        arbitration
                        He is at the will of the L
                        And could face a long wait & court fees etc.. to get his money back

                        Personally I would not pay last months rent go with your gut instinct you have dealt with this person for 4 years,you know what he's like
                        As long as it is the exact amount of the deposit that you withold
                        I would also photograph all the rooms & garden etc... prior to leaving just in case he decides to "find" some damage after you go

                        You need to do what works for you

                        I can totally see why you are concerned

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Poppy View Post
                          If you have not signed any further tenancy agreements with this landlord since August 2005, then there is no requirement for the deposit to be placed in a scheme. This is not an issue.

                          In regard to the issue of the deposit being protected, we had our rent changed increased in January 2009 from £430 to £450 pcm, does this mean that the deposit is now covered, I have a feeling that it won't be, could anyone advise on this issue, thanks,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by house275 View Post
                            Surely from the T perspective this is a bigger issue as if its not protected the T cannot call on
                            arbitration
                            He is at the will of the L
                            And could face a long wait & court fees etc.. to get his money back

                            Personally I would not pay last months rent go with your gut instinct you have dealt with this person for 4 years,you know what he's like
                            As long as it is the exact amount of the deposit that you withold
                            I would also photograph all the rooms & garden etc... prior to leaving just in case he decides to "find" some damage after you go

                            You need to do what works for you

                            I can totally see why you are concerned
                            House275,
                            I'm going to photograph all the rooms on the day we move out to prove that there is no damage with them, we cannot trim the grass in the garden as the power in the outhouse has been condemned three months ago and also the fuse box has a big crack in it. Electrician working for landlord told us this on a inspection back in January, we have informed him via email but our landlord has yet to do anything about it !

                            We are also going to be present during the inspection on the day after we move out and will be requesting copies of any checklists been made, for our records.

                            The rent amount is £450 pcm and according to our landlord via an email our bond/deposit that we are due back is also £450, so my thinking was to just ignore the landlord until end of April, then when we hand our keys back to his agent and speak to him, we can hopefully just call it evens and get into our new property.

                            We have also had an email from landlord just 6 days after the rent was due threating us with Court action if we don't pay up straight away.

                            Does anyone have any advise on the above details, etc,

                            Also if the landlord did go all the way to court over £450 rent, would a judge see it from both sides and realize that no one is actually out of pocket (i.e, he will keep our bond, we won't pay final months rent) and just dismiss the case, etc ?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by da_melonuk View Post
                              In regard to the issue of the deposit being protected, we had our rent changed increased in January 2009 from £430 to £450 pcm, does this mean that the deposit is now covered, I have a feeling that it won't be, could anyone advise on this issue, thanks,
                              Unless you signed a new agreement at some point after April 6 2007, there will have been no requirement to protect. How exactly were you notifed about the rent increase, though? Did that involve issuing and signing a new contract, or was it done by means of an additional notice?

                              This may be significant.
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment

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