Can L deduct from deposit for damage caused by T?

[Mars Mug]

I would expect that insurance claim cost of excess, including future premium increases, is significantly less that the damage cost, otherwise why claim. In that case if all the blame is with the tenant then surely they would be happier to cover the insurance costs rather than the repair costs?

[David Lawrenson]

Water leak and insurance claim

In my view the tenant should have told you he was going away so you could have taken appropriate action to make sure property was safe from leaks and other eventualities. Normally within the TA there should be clause spelling this out.
As he failed to do this I would suggest the resulting damage can be taken from the deposit.
By all means you could try to claim the resulting increased insurance excess but I would think that this could be successfully disputed by the tenant if it went to a TDS tribunal, for example.
I just don't think they would accept that you could charge the tenant for this head of cost.
In my view, you should accept that the premium and excess could go up and simply put this down to the cost of doing business.
David Lawrenson

[Planner]

Hi MarsMug,

Yes, plumber replaced ball valve which was causing tank to keep overfilling. So excess water was going down overflow pipe. Overflow pipe on outside of tank was leaking also.

If water stopcock had been turned off then tank wouldn't have been overfilling and overflow wouldn't have been leaking so there wouldn't have been damage caused or as much damage caused.

Surely this is six of one and half a dozen of the other?

If ball valve was working correctly and overflow pipe wasnt leaking then the tank wouldnt have been overfilling and overflow wouldnt have been leaking!

[bunny]

But the point, as you have found, is that making the tenant cover just the excess charge isn't likely to be enough.

Thanks for that. Your quote above is quite true and having received the last of my cheques from my insurance company today for the claim it was obviously at the forefront of my mind. I hope to close the book on insurance claims in 2009after 13 months of dealing with one.

[Mars Mug]

You can get a quote for a premium without a claim then you get exactly the same quote but with the added difference of a claim. I would then say that the difference in price is entirely due to the claim and that’s the amount to consider charging the tenant (multiplied by the number of years that a claim affects the premium).

So if the difference in the premium is £100, and the insurance company will charge this much extra for the next three years then that’s £300. Then add on top any excess.

I suspect that you might even get a better calculation if you contact the insurance company directly. What I am suggesting is I think a reasonable approximation of your losses.

But the point, as you have found, is that making the tenant cover just the excess charge isn't likely to be enough.

[bunny]

When you get an online quote from your insurance company, or any other, then where you see a question like ‘Have you made a claim in the last 3 years’ then answer yes and provide details as if you had made the claim. This should give you some idea of the effect on your premiums when you next renew.

Sorry, I am not making myself clear obviously. I understand what you are saying but I am trying to understand how much of the insurance premium increase you can charge to your tenant and also, in my case the excess increase. Premiums can go up for reasons other than a claim so would it be fair to charge 100% of 1st year's increase onto T or a proportion and what if the increases are to go on for years due to one claim, how do you calculate that? My T's are long gone now but I am interested for future reference. (God forbid)

I am trying to establish a formula for applying it as I only charged the excess. I also had to deduct the excess from the deposit when the T's left as they couldn't pay it at the time but now we have deposits protected you'd need to justify your charges in case of arbitration etc

Thank you for your patience

[Mars Mug]

When you get an online quote from your insurance company, or any other, then where you see a question like ‘Have you made a claim in the last 3 years’ then answer yes and provide details as if you had made the claim. This should give you some idea of the effect on your premiums when you next renew.

[bunny]

But how many extra years' increased premiums should you factor in when charging T?

That was what I was getting at with my question but I worded it very badly. Thank you MTG for your question!

My claim ran into £1000s and I now have double the excess applied, probably as the claim was due to tenant negligence. However, how I would have calculated all of that to be a one off payment by the T I'm still not sure.

[B2B]

The place that a T should turn off the water is the stop valve where the mains water enters the property, this will limit damage. Turning off valves further into the property is hit and miss as to whether it will prevent any leak.

[Mars Mug]

It’s usually indicated by the question when getting the quote e.g. have you claimed in the last ‘x’ years, though I don’t know if it’s a sliding scale.

[mind the gap]

You can get a quote at any time to gauge what the premium will be after making a claim, just include details of the claim.

But how many extra years' increased premiums should you factor in when charging T?

[Mars Mug]

You can get a quote at any time to gauge what the premium will be after making a claim, just include details of the claim. For a low value claim it may even be worthwhile checking before putting the claim in especially if there is excess to pay on top.

[bunny]

Sounds fair to me, but there may also be an increase in future premiums.

How do you charge for that? I charged a tenant full excess due to a water leak. My insurance premium has since been hiked and I have had double the excess now applied to that property out of my portfolio but until the renewal came through I didn't know what that hike would be.

[Mars Mug]

I would suggest T pays whole excess since they should have notified you that property was being left empty and they should have turned the water off. End of.

Sounds fair to me, but there may also be an increase in future premiums.

[mind the gap]

Hi MarsMug,

Yes, plumber replaced ball valve which was causing tank to keep overfilling. So excess water was going down overflow pipe. Overflow pipe on outside of tank was leaking also.

If water stopcock had been turned off then tank wouldn't have been overfilling and overflow wouldn't have been leaking so there wouldn't have been damage caused or as much damage caused.

What would be fair/right to charge please in these circumstances? Ppty will need drying out, ceiling and floors repaired/replaced.

Many thx in advance.

I would suggest T pays whole excess since they should have notified you that property was being left empty and they should have turned the water off. End of.