Letting to lodger: what Agreement form/wording?

[jax2503]

Hi,

What to do is call the police and speak to the local community police officer advise him you are doing an eviction of your lodger, advise him you have a court order and you dont want him to evict the tenant. You just need him there to prevent a breach of the peace and any other criminal acts that might occur. The police cant evict anyone they can only be there to prevent a breach of the peace. This can be done on an appointment basis, the police will call down to you at lets say the start of their shift and then you evict the tenant. If the tenant kicks off the police lock em up. GREAT SATISFACTION!!!!!!

Dont wait 3 or 4 weeks, just evict now.

Jax

[marapt]

Lodger right's help

Hello all,

I hope someone can help me.
When I first moved to the uk on 2nd August 2007 I rented a room as a lodger.
At the time we agreed on a rent of 325 pounds month and 100 pounds deposit and one month notice to leave. I was given a rent booklet.
I have respected all the rules and we get along ever since I moved in but I really believe its time to move on now.

Therefore, on the 18th November I said to my landlord I was thinking of moving in January and she was very upset, nevertheless, we agreed I would leave in the end of our agreement period the 2nd January. The next day she wrote me a letter saying she was giving me 4 weeks notice from that day on and I'd have to leave on 20th December. Also I would pay her 205 pounds and she would return the deposit of 100 pounds in full 7 days after; should all be ok in the room.
So my question is: Is this legal? Can she put me out before the date we had already agreed? How legal is the letter she wrote to me? Can she keep hold of my deposit for 7 days?

I would like to agree with her that when I get out she can check the room with me and give me my deposit back and I will give her the keys. This because I believe she will not give me my deposit back just because she's upset that I'm leaving.

Please let me know what rights do I have here...I want to do things legally but I do not agree my landlord should make my life harder in the house or keep my deposit just because she's upset.

What shall I do...

[PaulF]

Unless you have some other written terms than the 'letter' then as a lodger you have no other rights of occupation. The letter might indicate terms but unless it's detailed then you will have to argue your rights on that basis. The Housing Acts and Landlord & Tenant Acts do not apply.

[mind the gap]

Marapt, although your landlady is acting unprofessionally, she is not acting illegally; your rights as a lodger are very limited, I'm afraid.

All you can do is ask explain to your landlady that you need the money the day you leave and that you wouold be grateful if she would return it after she has carried out the inspection on the day you move out.

If she refuses, all you can do is wait the 7 days, then begin an online claim for your deposit using moneyclaim online - it's quite straightforward and the chances are that once you tell her you are doing that, she will pay up (otherwise she could end up in court paying evn more and with a county court judgement against her).

What is really imprtant is that you take some photos of the room the day you move out - as many as you can to show the state of it. However, unless she issued and you signed a detailed inventory when you moved in (did she?) I do not think she can keep any of your deposit anyway - she would have no proof of who did any damage which she claims has been done in the room. So, even if she says she is keeping some/all of your deposit to cover 'cleaning and damage', refuse to accept that and file your claim anyway. You would have a good case for getting it all back, I believe. Come back to this forum for help if you need it.

Presumably the £205 is the rent owing up to the day you move out? It's not an extra charge, is it? Please explain.

Good luck with finding somewhere else to live.

[marapt]

Thank you

Dear all,

Thank you for your prompt replies. I have already tried to get some advice from the Citizenship Advise Bureau but seems very hard to get in touch with them but I'll keep trying.
I did not receive a list of things in the room when I moved in but I'm sure all is in same conditions as I have always played fair with her and it was my "home" for more than a year.
I'll intend to pay the 205 pounds which seems reasonable as this would be the amount for the days I'm staying...
I would feel safer though if I could substract to that money the 100 pounds deposit but I have been looking for rules and laws and I believe I can't do that. Therefore, I'll follow the advise of Mind the Gap asking the money before I leave and claim for it after should she refuse to pay.
I regret this situation and would prefer to solve this as smoothly as possible but I also believe that despite she can be doing this legaly there is a lack of a human an moral value which I seriously regret.

Thank you for your answers and time they were of great help.

[mind the gap]

Thank you for your answers and time they were of great help.

You're welcome, marapt. I'm only sorry your landlady is treating you like this - it's not a very good introduction to a new country. As you say, she lacks decency. Most UK landlords are not like that and I hope you have a nicer one next time.

The Citizens Advice Bureau may well be closed at weekends - try Monday morning?

[Bel]

Marapt

Bear in mind that you may want a reference from her one day, maybe for another tenancy.

It will be worthwhile keeping things as amicable as possible, but equally, you should expect the return of the deposit after 7 days if you have kept your room nice.

[marapt]

Dear Bel and all

Thank you for your advice.

I believe comunication is definitly the way.
I think things were far beyond I expected with regards to my move out.
I have get along with my landord for more than a year and due to the respect I have for her I intended to let her know as soon as possible that I was thinking of moving so that she could prepare for a new lodger..but when we spoke I still hadn't decided...anyway she was upset and wanted to raise a discussion.
I told her I meant to cause no problems or have a disagreement.
She pressured me for a date and we ended up agreeing on moving out the 2nd January. However, the next day I told her it was a bit unfair that she pressured me for a date as I still didn't know and I'd like to just give her notice 4 weeks before I move out as agreed. I was worried...
At this point she went mad and told me 4 weeks work both ways and she would now give me 4 weeks notice...and we had a disagreement as I told her that wasn't fair and she was only doing that 'cause she was upset...to which she replied "I don't care" and the next morning I had a letter for me saying I had to leave until the 20th and pay the rent (205 pounds) and she would give me the deposit 7 days after...

Today I tried to talk to her. I said I apologised if there was something I did to upset her but that I intend to take things in a nice and friendly way. Told her maybe we both needed to learn from this situation as I was far to believe this would end this way.
Told her nothing changes I'm still moving out an all but I would like things to be calm and peacefull for both of us until I move out.
I asked her if I could give her contacts for future references and if she would be ok with checking the room and paying me the day I leave...she said she is stiking to what she said in the letter. She mentioned being sick and having a depression due to other things in her life!? Told her I always wanted to play fair and even told her if I have a place to move sooner I don't mind leaving sooner and she can put someone in as well. I really don't want to be here anymore...

She said she will give references and help me as she can in that matter and that she agrees to do things in a nice way but she will keep the deposit for the 7 days (and that in fact she could keep it for 1 month ????) in case something needs to be fixed. I told her she can check the room ...but I stopped there and said I respect her decision.

I will trust her and wait for the 7 days...but honestly I think she may have money problems and she doesn't intend to pay me. I can assure the room is in very good conditions and I'll make sure I clean it perfectly before I leave.
100 pounds may not sound a lot but if this is not just about money, it's about good sense and respect and justice! I don't know if this means nothing in the UK but it means a lot where I come from. I'm trying to be reasonable here and its not easy. I just want what I'm entitled to without having to fight for it.
Seriously, I'm shocked with the kind of attitude one can have...

I'm sorry for the long e-mail...I'm getting desperate here

[Bel]

You have done well by keeping calm here. She has her reasons to act the way she does; don't take it personally. By your kind example you are helping her.

Realise that as long as you do your best you can do no more. Don't fret about changing what is not changable regarding the deposit; you will have to just see what happens. Whatever happens you will be OK.

Contact Shelter about your situation as they will be able to advise you of your rights regarding alternative housing if you find that you cannot get new accomodation, and you become homeless if she refuses to let you stay on after the date. Then you will have a back-up plan. Tell them about your fears for the deposit. If there is trouble, they may talk to her on your behalf.

[sagi_1001]

lodger wont move out

hi, i am a landlord and i have rented one of my property to a family but they were sub leting one of the room with out my permision. But they were paying the rent on time and had a good relation as tenants. Now they have moved out but the couple and the child have not moved out from the room and they are refusing to pay rent or vacate the property.

i have never delt with them in the past and they dont have any agreement to stay there. They dont even have the rent slip to say they have payed the money to previous tenant.

please tell me where do i stand?

[jeffrey]

Why do you use the word 'lodger'? Lawful T has left. Is T's tenancy actually ended?
The occupiers are trespassers, so far as you are concerned, and you need to evict them- but only by possession proceedings, not forcibly.

[Bel]

hi, i am a landlord and i have rented one of my property to a family but they were sub leting one of the room with out my permision. But they were paying the rent on time and had a good relation as tenants. Now they have moved out but the couple and the child have not moved out from the room and they are refusing to pay rent or vacate the property.

i have never delt with them in the past and they dont have any agreement to stay there. They dont even have the rent slip to say they have payed the money to previous tenant.

please tell me where do i stand?

You need to make your original tenants understand they are still liable for rent until they give you back your house without their subtenants.

[marapt]

Help again...

Hello all again,

I'd like to thank you for all your help so far and wish I did not have to ask for your advise once again.
Despite my attempts of doing this the best I could I now face the situation I predicted. My landorld refuses to give me my money back. More than that she is changing the situation in order to look into her favor.

After our discussion or first days of notice I have talked to her saying I intended to take things on a friendly basis as usual. I asked her if she could check the room with me before I leave and pay me my deposit back the day I'd move out. She refused. I told her I'd wait but still would want her to check the room with me before I move out, also told her I had found a home and I was asked for my previous landord contact details for references and asked her permission to give her contacts and nothing else. She said ok.

On the 15th I moved most of my things and cleaned the house as I was leaving on holidays to Portugal on the 20th. That last week I tried to speak with her several times and told her again I did not understand why she would not give me my deposit when I'd leave and also that I'd want her to check the room with me ...she said she would not give me my money until she inspected the room throughly...I was worried. I knew from the very beginning this lady has no good will of sorting this peacefully or even give me back my money. Therefore, on that last week before I move out I tried to send a e-mail as peacefull as anyone could read asking her to check the room and sign a paper confirming all was ok in the room and if not also presenting any concerns regarding room damaging if any. I told her if she refused to do this or to check the room with me I would not accept an future claims regarding any concerns she may present after I leave. Also told her if she would refuse to pay my deposit back I would not take this easily and would persue this until the small claim court if necessary.
As I expected her reply was harsh and exagerated. She said she was disgusted with my e-mail and that she would send a representative instead of being there. After this 7 days I waited she now tells me the representative costed 57 pounds and the room carpet/furniture stains damage is about 125 pounds for cleaning...she claims she will accept 100 pounds deposit and we end this here??????????????
The stains in carpet and furniture she claims needing 125 pounds for cleaning were already there when I first moved in. I know this may seem typical but its the pure truth and I just regret I do not knew this could be happening to me otherwise I'd taken pictures from the 1st day I moved in. I came from Portugal without even seeing the room or aving any pictures. I trusted this lady and she is taking advantage from my lack of knowledge of the English culture and I only regret that I have such a bad example of the English culture and people as this lady nerves is appaling to me.
I can drop this matter but I don't want to because I find it appaling what this lady is doing. I do want my money because its not fair to be blamed by damages already existent in the room before I moved in. But more impotantly I want to stop people like me to be misleaded and sacked like this! This lady should be called attention as what she is dong is totally wrong and English should not let people like her to give such a bad impression of their culture and people.

I'm sorry to let myself carry away...please do let me know what I can do...its my word against her...and the representative said I'm the one to prove the room was already damaged when i moved in???? Can this be truth? I have no photos from when I moved in only when I moved out...there was no inventory list and I was never told I had a week to present a list with any dislikes to the landlord...should I know this or should I be told this when i moved in? I was really surprised to know that its up to me to prove the room was damaged when I moved in and not the other way around. I did not expected to have this problem when I moved in...otherwise I would be better prepared...if possible...'cause with people like this I think you can never be prepared enough!

Please help me. Thank you.

[Preston]

Hi

To know exactly what your legal position is, its important to have a few more details about your arrangements. Firstly and most importantly, have you actually moved out?

If you havent, do you have a room that is exclusively for your use and which the landlord is not allowed to enter without your permission?

Do you share any living accommodation with the landlord (living room or kitchen)?

Does the landlord provide any other services, such as cleaning of your room, cooking for you, etc?

Subject to your answers to the above questions, you are likely to be what is called an excluded tenant or an excluded licensee. Because you have agreed with the landlord, at the start of the letting, that you are entitled to a month's notice, then she must give you this notice before you have to leave. Unfortunately, if you are "excluded" then the notice need not be in writing - though she must be able to prove that she has given you this notice if ever she is challenged. Were you non excluded, however, then you would be entiteld to written notice - hence the importance of the questions I've outlined above.

She can only deduct from the deposit for items which the deposit was agreed to cover. In the absence of a written agreement it can be difficult for either party to prove this, unfortunately. However, her agent is wrong to say that it is down to you to prove that no damage has taken place - it is very much down to her. Your remedy, if she does deduct any sums which you are unhappy with, is to sue her for the amount you do not think is fair.

Anyway, hope this helps

Preston

[Bel]

Go to a Citizens Advice Bureau or Law Centre to see if they can help you claim back the deposit. They may write a letter on your behalf

If you are prepared to claim using the court process, you will be wise to write a 'letter before action' informing her of your intentions and giving her 7 or 14 days to pay before you apply to the court.

Good luck.

Keep us posted