Letting to lodger: what Agreement form/wording?

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    Originally posted by Telometer View Post
    Interesting, thanks.

    Anyway, the AST is of no value whatsoever, and T resides there under informal verbal licence?
    Yes, unless L2 (still resident) either:
    a. joined in the letting; or
    b. had appointed L1 to ask as her informal agent.
    Even then, as L2 resides, it could not be an AST. It would be only a contractual letting.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      Originally posted by Telometer View Post

      Anyway, the AST is of no value whatsoever, and T resides there under informal verbal licence?

      My understanding:

      When a LL gets a lodger to sign an AST (due to ignorance of LL) it cannot be an AST in law, but the contractual terms therein may still have weight...i.e. the term may be for the fixed period stated, at the rent stated and the other terms, such as notice stated. The whole contract can not be disregarded just because it is wrong to say it is an AST when it is not.

      So do you say that because L2 did not give permission that the contract is void, Jeffrey? And so the lodger can be asked to leave at any time, and this will not breach the contract (because its invalid)?

      Or the contract remains valid and enforceable, but L2 can sue L1 for compensation for any loss due to lodger living in home?

      Can lodger sue L1 if lodger forced to leave before end of contractual term
      All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

      * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

      You can search the forums here:

      Comment


        non paying lodger

        i have a lodger in my flat, he hasnt been paying his rent, i gave him one months notice and he's still there - can i through him out? or do i need to go through the courts?

        thank you in advance

        Comment


          Lodgers dont normally have too many rights. Was any sort of contract done? If not you could just pack his stuff up and put it in the street then change the locks.

          Comment


            an AST was signed some time ago

            will this make a difference?

            thanks

            Comment


              A ast is not valid for a lodger but certain aspects of it may be.

              Other members may be more knowledgeable.

              Jeffery is the man to ask

              Comment


                No you can chuck him out when you like if you agreed he was entitled to a months Notice. Law of L & T doesn't apply. He's a lodger, not a tenant.
                The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                Comment


                  Only the owner (O) can let, whether O does this in person or via A.
                  L1 is one of two owners (joint with L2).
                  So L1 cannot let.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    HB (DSS) lodger eviction

                    I took on an unemployed couple who turned out to be unemployed. I was in a bit of a hurry and the guy said he was working. I did not meet his girlfriend until after they moved in the following Monday (7th July, 2008). It turned out neither of them worked but said the council would be paying them housing benefit. Naive me thought 'no worries' as I am happy for any money.

                    To cut a long story short, three months have passed, no money has been paid to me (the law recently changed with the council paying the rent allowance to the tenants/lodgers rather than direct to the landlord) and the lodgers have run a riot. They keep a dog in the room, smoke and have thieved food and belongins from myself and my other long-term lodger. No matter what either of us said, they stil kept it up and became quite aggressive. We even had to call the police on one occasion.

                    Now is your time, fellow landlords, to call me a stupid, naive fool, because my landlord acquaintances have all called me that (plus worse!) for taking on DSS, or HB, as they are known as these days.

                    My excuse is impatience and also a lack of knowledge as I have only lived in the UK for five years. However, an honest mistake has turned into a nightmare.

                    To the crux of the story, I consulted a firm that provides legal assistance to landlords for a fixed fee (using locally-based solicitors). I explained the situation and they said I needed to pursue a Section 8 notice because the lodgers had not paid rent for over two months. They seemed to not realise they were lodgers and not tenants and I too was not sure of the difference between the two legally. They were given an eviction notice, four weeks later a County Court case (they did not show up) and the judge was surprised at my situation. He said the tenants were just lodgers and I should not have had to go to court and wait so long. He nevertheless gave them one week's notice (instead of the usual two) to vacate. If they do not leave by the 7th October, I can organise the court bailiffs to chuck them out. However, the firm told me it could take 2 to 3 weeks due to the amount of evictions taking place. In other words, end of October.

                    On the contrary, I have read and been told I could change the locks/demand they get out/whatever myself. Is that the case?

                    What is the real deal here? No one seems to know, or want to give me, the real answer here.

                    For the record, I am not a businessman, just a guy who needs to rent couple of rooms to help pay my way.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by AustralianGuy View Post
                      judge said the tenants were just lodgers and I should not have had to go to court and wait so long.
                      According to posts here, Lodgers in your house have no rights, just throw them out, provided you did not write any contracts ? You did'nt, did you ?

                      Others will verify what you can do to get lodgers out

                      R-a-M

                      Comment


                        Contracts

                        Thank you for that R a m.

                        I did originally have a tenancy agreement but I found out later that because these people were lodging, the agreement was null and void. Not only that, they signed one copy only - and then lost it. The local council saw no copy of it, I never found it and I could only give my word that an agreement had been seen and signed. I never get people to sign six-month agreements either. I keep it as a monthly. Either way, it was worthless to anyone and they probably did me a favor by losing it!

                        I spoke to the male lodger and told him he and his girlfriend had to leave on the 7th and he agreed. I also stated I will have some friends present to witness them leaving. They are not acting as heavies but to make sure these two lodgers don't do anything dangerous or illegal or witness to the police if they do anything bad. Once they both leave the house, I will change the lock.

                        At the end of the day, they have cost me a lot of money not just in non-paid rent but in court fees, theft and some damage. I think I have learnt a valuable lesson and appreciate the superb advice people give here.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by AustralianGuy View Post
                          I spoke to the male lodger and told him he and his girlfriend had to leave on the 7th and he agreed.
                          At least you have a court order ( I assume one was issued ) and if they don't comply to a court order, they can be arrested.

                          How you do it I don't know, but would be nice for you to know their forwarding address, in case they damage anything on the way out, for spite ( oh yes they do ) but they can give you any address they like, it does not have to be the correct one, so maybe one of your friends could follow at a distance to see where they end up / ( Discretely of course )

                          Saying they will go, and actually going are two different things, so make sure you have friends there. In fact, if you have a court order, phone local cops, and ask for a policeman to attend, as you think there could be trouble with the eviction ( They usually attend )

                          Best of luck
                          ( Yes, there is good information on here, mine is a bit rough sometimes, ( Note:- Sometimes ) but fight fire with fire if all else fails when the law favours the guilty, or landlords or tenants are "Taking the Piss" )


                          R-a-M

                          Comment


                            Yes, I did get the court order, which the judge gladly gave. I agree totally about having some friends there as witnesses. Your recommendation of calling for a police officer's presence is an excellent idea. Co-incidentally, my girlfriend also mentioned something similar.

                            To add to the story, just a couple of days ago the two lodgers were having a row in their room and it sounded serious. We wondered if they guy had hit the girl. I went upstairs and banged on the door and asked them to keep the noise down. After all, it was 3am Sunday morning! The girl swore at me and disappeared into her room. I saw she had some nasty bruises to her face and a cut lip. The guy then flew off the handle at me and tried to grab/hit me but I got out of the way. He then refused to leave on the 7th (court order) and threatened me.

                            I guess this adds to the nightmare. However, if they do refuse to leave on that date, at least I have the court order and the baliffs to fall back on. Too bad it apparently takes 2 - 3 weeks for that to happen.

                            I think there is an ongoing lesson here - be VERY careful who you let stay in your house! Also, avoid HB (DSS) people like the plague.

                            Comment


                              The big day

                              Well, continuing on with the saga, the date of the eviction has arrived (7th October, as the judge ordered) and the lodgers have refused to budge. I expected that anyway because they got aggressive and threatening and refused point blank to go when the date arrived.

                              I now have to call my solicitors to arrange the court bailiffs. They said it could/would take 2 to 3 weeks for them to show up and evict he lodgers.

                              *Please see my new post in regard to bailiffs.

                              Comment


                                Arrest your lodgers

                                Originally posted by AustralianGuy View Post
                                Well, continuing on with the saga, the date of the eviction has arrived (7th October, as the judge ordered) and the lodgers have refused to budge.
                                Your lodgers can be arrested for failing to comply to a court order.

                                Correct me if i am wrong.

                                One thing people CANNOT do, is ignor a court order.

                                Therefore inform the police that you have a court order, and your lodgers are refusing to obey a court order.

                                ..

                                Comment

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