Eviction from shared house- is landlord 'resident'?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Eviction from shared house- is landlord 'resident'?

    A friend is a tenant in a shared house, he has a single page document called a rental agreement that infers that the landlord lives at the property. Although this is actually not true, as all room are let to other people in the property and the landlord lives in another city. So my friend has fallen 1 month in arrears, and has proposed to the landlord that he pays this off over three months, as an overpayment on top of his regular rent payment.
    Landlord has replied by text message yesterday (tues) saying that he has to move out on Sat, and that the landlord will be arriving with new tenants.

    This is a bit worrying for my pal as he doesnt want to leave, and surley this is illegal eviction?

    My advice to him has been to sit tight and if the LL turns up that he should call the Police.

    I think the LL is trying it on with the resident landlord approach, but let say that he can pull this off does he then have to right to chuck the tenant out?

    #2
    Originally posted by toys19 View Post
    A friend is a tenant in a shared house, he has a single page document called a rental agreement that infers that the landlord lives at the property. Although this is actually not true, as all room are let to other people in the property and the landlord lives in another city. So my friend has fallen 1 month in arrears, and has proposed to the landlord that he pays this off over three months, as an overpayment on top of his regular rent payment.
    Landlord has replied by text message yesterday (tues) saying that he has to move out on Sat, and that the landlord will be arriving with new tenants.

    This is a bit worrying for my pal as he doesnt want to leave, and surley this is illegal eviction?

    My advice to him has been to sit tight and if the LL turns up that he should call the Police.

    I think the LL is trying it on with the resident landlord approach, but let say that he can pull this off does he then have to right to chuck the tenant out?
    T= tenant (your friend).

    I think he needs to inform his LL immediately that what he (LL) proposes amounts to illegal eviction. As long as he (T) has evidence that the LL is not resident (can he prove this with witnesses, etc?) then it changes his tenancy into - I suppose - a verbal AST, and he is not in fact a lodger (lodgers have fewer rights and no security of tenure, which is presumably why LL pretends to live there and thinks he can get away with throwing people out at short notice).

    Then he (T) should seek legal aid because he will need it. Contact Shelter or a law centre who will give free advice.

    It sounds as if time is of the essence, so act quickly.

    Perhaps one of the lawyers on the forum could add to/modify my 'gut reaction' advice here?
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

    Comment


      #3
      Yep. if the landlord cannot be proven to not live there then your friend has whats known as a lodger agreement which effectively means he has very few rights indeed, and can be asked to leave at very short notice.
      [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]

      Comment


        #4
        We need to clear up the situation on the tenure first. Are you able to give more information on the set up - how many rooms how many tenants how does the LL claim he is resident?

        does the agreement say anything about exclusive possession of rooms or anything like that?
        PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

        Comment


          #5
          OP states that all the rooms are let to other people and the LL lives in another city.

          In practice does anyone have any ideas as to the best way of proving this, quickly?

          Would it be OK to get all occupants to sign a short statement identifying themselves and the room they occupy? Perhaps produce a recent item of mail with their name and address on it?

          The problem will be that it would only take one other occupant to be unwilling to do this (perhaps through fear of being evicted themself), for LL to say 'That's my room. I'm the resident LL'.

          OP, have you been given another address for the LL apart from the property where you live?
          'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

          Comment


            #6
            Well, electoral register is often a good place to start, additionally it helps to have some utility/council tax or something in occupiers name.
            [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]

            Comment


              #7
              Does he ever stay there? A resident landlord can have two homes.
              ASSUME NOTHING - QUESTION EVERYTHING!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Paragon View Post
                A resident landlord can have two homes.
                Well, no. See para. 10 of Schedule 1 to the Housing Act 1988 (below) and the wording that I've underlined.
                "Only or principal" means no more than one!

                Resident landlords

                10(1) A tenancy in respect of which the following conditions are fulfilled:

                (a) that the dwelling-house forms part only of a building and, except in a case where the dwelling-house also forms part of a flat, the building is not a purpose-built block of flats; and

                (b) that, subject to Part III of this Schedule, the tenancy was granted by an individual who, at the time when the tenancy was granted, occupied as his only or principal home another dwelling-house which,
                (i) in the case mentioned in paragraph (a) above, also forms part of the flat; or
                (ii) in any other case, also forms part of the building; and

                (c) that, subject to Part III of this Schedule, at all times since the tenancy was granted the interest of the landlord under the tenancy has belonged to an individual who, at the time he owned that interest, occupied as his only or principal home another dwelling-house which,
                (i) in the case mentioned in paragraph (a) above, also formed part of the flat; or
                (ii) in any other case, also formed part of the building; and

                (d) that the tenancy is not one which is excluded from this sub-paragraph by sub-paragraph (3) below.

                (2) If a tenancy was granted by two or more persons jointly, the reference in sub-paragraph (1)(b) above to an individual is a reference to any one of those persons and if the interest of the landlord is for the time being held by two or more persons jointly, the reference in sub-paragraph (1)(c) above to an individual is a reference to any one of those persons.

                (3) A tenancy (in this sub-paragraph referred to as the new tenancy) is excluded from sub-paragraph (1) above if:
                (a) it is granted to a person (alone, or jointly with others) who, immediately before it was granted, was a tenant under an assured tenancy (in this sub-paragraph referred to as the former tenancy) of the same dwelling-house or of another dwelling-house which forms part of the building in question; and
                (b) the landlord under the new tenancy and under the former tenancy is the same person or, if either of those tenancies is or was granted by two or more persons jointly, the same person is the landlord or one of the landlords under each tenancy.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  #9
                  The test is whether at the time the agreement was entered into the LL was living within the building as his only or principal home. The LL then has to remain resident throughout the term of occupation by T.

                  The onus and burden of proof is on the LL to satisfy the court he was resident.

                  If he fails then your friend is probably an assured shorthold tenant.

                  I agree your friend needs to give a full account to a solicitor and they should look at the documents your friend has to give proper advice.

                  It is possible that your friend could be a licencee but I doubt he is.

                  This means that your friend cannot just be thrown out by LL without proper notice - and even if proper notice has been served T can still remain and LL cannot use force - he must go to court.

                  I would suggest looking on the Legal Services Commission's website to see if your friend is eligible for Legal Help

                  http://www.communitylegaladvice.org....calculator.jsp
                  PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    only OR principal home. So is it possible it is his principal but not his only home?
                    ASSUME NOTHING - QUESTION EVERYTHING!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Paragon View Post
                      only OR principal home. So is it possible it is his principal but not his only home?
                      Only if he lived there as his principal or 'main' home.
                      Always double check advice... not just mine!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Impartial Advice View Post
                        Only if he lived there as his principal or 'main' home.
                        Obviously not, unless he claims to be 'living with' one of the other occupants of the house, and can exert enough pressure on said occupant to corroborate his claim.
                        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                          Obviously not, unless he claims to be 'living with' one of the other occupants of the house, and can exert enough pressure on said occupant to corroborate his claim.
                          Thats what I wanted to say.... thanks

                          It been a long day!
                          Always double check advice... not just mine!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            How does it stand when a landlord owns only 1 property, lived in it at the outset of the lodger moving in, then works away from home for a period of time (living in rental digs), intending to come back at the end of the contract?

                            Or, for example, spend most of their time round their partner's property?

                            Do they automatically lose the right to call their own property as their principle home because they've secured temporary accommodation elsewhere and only come back to their own house for occasional weekends?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Beeber View Post
                              How does it stand when a landlord owns only 1 property, lived in it at the outset of the lodger moving in, then works away from home for a period of time (living in rental digs), intending to come back at the end of the contract?

                              Or, for example, spend most of their time round their partner's property?

                              Do they automatically lose the right to call their own property as their principle home because they've secured temporary accommodation elsewhere and only come back to their own house for occasional weekends?
                              For owner's period of only/main residence at the property, T is a lodger.
                              If owner then ceases to have only/main residence at the property, T becomes tenant.
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Reply to Are they my lodgers or tenants?
                                by theartfullodger
                                Tenants. Moving back in won't change that.

                                How many occupants do you have please?
                                06-12-2021, 22:53 PM
                              • Are they my lodgers or tenants?
                                by Livingonaprayer
                                Hi all.
                                I bought a house, lived in it for a few months, then had friends ask me if they could move in as had to leave their property and were struggling to find somewhere with their dog. I agreed and drew up lodging agreement and they moved in.
                                Unfortunately our dogs did not get on, and...
                                06-12-2021, 20:46 PM
                              • Reply to Am I a lodger or a tenant?
                                by AndrewDod
                                If that were so straightforwardly the case then I would easily be able to a secure a tenancy for my friend's daughter (D) who has zero credit rating, and zero ability to pay rent.

                                I would take a 6M tenancy myself, immediately grant a 4 year tenancy at quarter my original rent to D, let...
                                06-12-2021, 21:53 PM
                              • Am I a lodger or a tenant?
                                by Bert1e
                                Hello, I have a question about my legal status in private rented accommodation.

                                I live in a private rented house. The entire house is rented from the landlord by one individual (let's call her Sara). Sara has a bedroom in the house and a lot of stuff in the cupboards all around the house....
                                28-11-2021, 12:13 PM
                              • Reply to Tenancy issues - No Deposit Scheme, demanding deposit back
                                by alice123
                                I'm sorry you are in this situation , from what i have heard from someone these 'no win no fee' type of 'solicitors' take a massive chunk out of any claim for their own fees , which would leave your tenant with rather less money that he/she would have anticipated.

                                One of the reasons why...
                                06-12-2021, 21:13 PM
                              • Tenancy issues - No Deposit Scheme, demanding deposit back
                                by llplug
                                I am a private landlord who has not put tenants deposit into Deposit scheme - I now understand the errors of my ways, put my hand up, my fault, been lax

                                Tenant has had a number of minor issues (sink drainage, plug not working, bedroom light not working) which I have made an effort to rectify,...
                                19-11-2021, 15:49 PM
                              • Reply to Am I a lodger or a tenant?
                                by KTC
                                The term lawful here applies to private landlord. It's a term that does not just exist within the Housing Act 1988, but also Rent Act 1977, and probably other places. In this context, it basically means as the Shelter page summarised, did the mesne tenant have permission to sublet. That section of the...
                                06-12-2021, 21:11 PM
                              • Reply to Accelerated possession order
                                by Hudson01
                                This is a good point..... also, not wishing to tempt fate, but with the increase in Covid type restrictions is it beyond thinking that we may have another xmas ban on evictions ???? I do not believe it is needed but you know what the lefties are like....
                                06-12-2021, 21:01 PM
                              • Accelerated possession order
                                by Pariah81
                                A tenant has refused to leave the property at the end of her tenancy and has now asked to be evicted as in her words 'that will make her eligible for a council house'.

                                I am sending an accelerated possession order through the courts but whilst completed the forms noticed two apparent errors...
                                05-12-2021, 18:12 PM
                              • Reply to Accelerated possession order
                                by L4NDLORD
                                this is not a great time to try to get possession, I would recommend that you tolerate them a bit longer. The Judge is not going to be sympathetic and besides these cases are going to take a long time to come to Court.
                                06-12-2021, 20:55 PM
                              Working...
                              X