Can L postpone hearing re returning deposit to T?

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  • Can L postpone hearing re returning deposit to T?

    I hope someone out there can help me in my query?

    I am due to appear in Court in 2 weeks to defend myself for not returning my Tenants Deposit.As far as I am concerned it was not needed as my Tenants moved in before April 07 and did not sign another agreement.

    I have given them 1/3 of their Deposit back but am within my rights to hold onto the remaining 2/3 as the inventory brought up many minor issues.

    The Tenants felt the need to take me to Court for the remaining amount but I need more time in obtaining quotes for the issues to put bring the property upto the standard I feel it should have been left.

    The Tenants have tried to send me ,what I am assuming ,would be some kind of Court Orders.So far I have managed to avoid accepting them, although the Postal service have left me a slip of paper informing me that I need to collect the Papers within 21 Days.Can I postpone the Hearing on the grounds I have not received the Papers?

  • #2
    Originally posted by granadaok View Post
    I hope someone out there can help me in my query?

    I am due to appear in Court in 2 weeks to defend myself for not returning my Tenants Deposit.As far as I am concerned it was not needed as my Tenants moved in before April 07 and did not sign another agreement.

    I have given them 1/3 of their Deposit back but am within my rights to hold onto the remaining 2/3 as the inventory brought up many minor issues.

    The Tenants felt the need to take me to Court for the remaining amount but I need more time in obtaining quotes for the issues to put bring the property upto the standard I feel it should have been left.

    The Tenants have tried to send me ,what I am assuming ,would be some kind of Court Orders.So far I have managed to avoid accepting them, although the Postal service have left me a slip of paper informing me that I need to collect the Papers within 21 Days.Can I postpone the Hearing on the grounds I have not received the Papers?

    What's the point? This could be seen as deliberate stalling on your part.

    Why don't you just collect the papers and turn up at court to defend the deductions you propose to make, if you are so sure they are fair?

    If you have watertight inventories on check-in and check-out, supported by photographs showing the damage you claim the tenants have done, and receipts/invoices for any remedial work done so far, you have the important things. It should not take two weeks to get estimates for the repairs, should it? How extensively have they trashed the place?

    If you do not have such evidence, (signed by the tenants on check-in at least), then you might as well just refund the whole of their deposits now without further ado, since you are very unlikey to be able to defend your case without it, and you could end up paying your own and their court costs too.

    The court will need incontravertible evidence that what you are claiming for is damage , which was done by the tenants during their tenancy (which the Ts will clearly contest) and not fair wear and tear.
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
      What's the point? This could be seen as deliberate stalling on your part.

      Why don't you just collect the papers and turn up at court to defend the deductions you propose to make, if you are so sure they are fair?

      If you have watertight inventories on check-in and check-out, supported by photographs showing the damage you claim the tenants have done, and receipts/invoices for any remedial work done so far, you have the important things. It should not take two weeks to get estimates for the repairs, should it? How extensively have they trashed the place?

      If you do not have such evidence, (signed by the tenants on check-in at least), then you might as well just refund the whole of their deposits now without further ado, since you are very unlikey to be able to defend your case without it, and you could end up paying your own and their court costs too.

      The court will need incontravertible evidence that what you are claiming for is damage , which was done by the tenants during their tenancy (which the Ts will clearly contest) and not fair wear and tear.

      The Tenants had fixed speakers to the wall of one of the rooms and had hung Pictures in another room.They filled and sanded the holes and painted over them but I still feel they are far too visable and wish to have the walls repainted properly and not just covered up as they have attempted. They have stated they will repaint the walls.I am not willing for them to do this.I fail to see why I should allow this to happen. Instead they have issued proceedings against me.I do not wish to receive the Papers as it is rediculous that they have been allowed to continue with this farce. They had a deadline on which to send me the Papers and I now understand they have missed the deadline as I do not have the Papers. Im hopeful the Judge will see that this matter will be a waste of the Courts time.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by granadaok View Post
        The Tenants had fixed speakers to the wall of one of the rooms and had hung Pictures in another room.They filled and sanded the holes and painted over them but I still feel they are far too visable and wish to have the walls repainted properly and not just covered up as they have attempted. They have stated they will repaint the walls.I am not willing for them to do this.I fail to see why I should allow this to happen..
        For you to insist on totally redecorating the room when they have already restored it may well be seen as 'betterment' and your claim would in all likeliehood be thrown out. Presumably all you need to do is re-sand and touch up the paintwork. The cost of doing that does not reasonably equate to two thirds of a tenancy deposit and the court would see your claim as being overinflated at the very best.

        Originally posted by granadaok View Post
        Instead they have issued proceedings against me.I do not wish to receive the Papers as it is rediculous that they have been allowed to continue with this farce. They had a deadline on which to send me the Papers and I now understand they have missed the deadline as I do not have the Papers. Im hopeful the Judge will see that this matter will be a waste of the Courts time.
        It may well be sen as a waste of the court's time, but not in the way you anticipate. They have served papers - they will have proof of this - and you have been informed that you need to pick them up. You are hoping to rely on a technicality to avoid this particular court hearing, but they will get you there eventually, even if there is a delay. Given what I have said above about the validity of your claim, the judge may well sympathise with the tenants and order you to pay their deposit back in full plus costs.

        It's your choice!
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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        • #5
          wow im glad your not my landlord
          Your stance seems very one sided


          How do you reach the 2/3 rd's is yours figure ?b

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          • #6
            Originally posted by house275 View Post
            :wow im glad your not my landlord
            Your stance seems very one sided


            How do you reach the 2/3 rd's is yours figure ?b
            Everyone knows that it costs hundreds and hundreds of pounds to re-emulsion two small sections of wall
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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            • #7
              The Tenants are representing themselves whereas I have stated on my Counterclaim that a Solicitor is acting for me.I also named them on the Forms. I may not have been completely honest with this point.I did seek advise from a Law firm who advised I reduce my Counterclaim.I did not agree with this advise and they will not be acting for me.I was hopeful that the Tenants would see I have a very good Law firm behind me and would drop the proceedings. How can I appear in Court when I have falsely claimed I have Legal backing? As far as I am aware the Tenants have not sent papers to the Firm as I did state in my Counterclaim I wanted ALL Documents sent to myself.It appears I have got the rules confused.I was under the impression the Papers had to be in my Hand.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by house275 View Post
                wow im glad your not my landlord
                Your stance seems very one sided


                How do you reach the 2/3 rd's is yours figure ?b
                I am having the whole house repainted! They have left sticker marks on one of the bedroom doors that will need to be taken off and repainted!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by granadaok View Post
                  The Tenants are representing themselves whereas I have stated on my Counterclaim that a Solicitor is acting for me.I also named them on the Forms. I may not have been completely honest with this point.
                  Did you see the little declaration at the foot of the form? It's called a Statement of Truth and signing it in the knowledge that the form contains false information is an offence (contempt of court). Therefore, quite apart from the fact that you might get into trouble with the Police, the judge will take a very, very dim view of this and will assess your credibility at something approaching zero and you will lose the case and also very probably have substantial costs awarded against you. Not only that, but if you give the same evidence under oath, you will be committing yet another criminal offence (perjury and/or attempting to pervert the course of justice)

                  Originally posted by granadaok View Post
                  I did seek advise from a Law firm who advised I reduce my Counterclaim.I did not agree with this advise and they will not be acting for me.
                  That was a serious misjudgement on your part.

                  Originally posted by granadaok View Post
                  I was hopeful that the Tenants would see I have a very good Law firm behind me and would drop the proceedings.
                  Your bluff failed and you should settle the case asap.

                  Originally posted by granadaok View Post
                  How can I appear in Court when I have falsely claimed I have Legal backing?
                  You cannot and should not. See above.

                  Originally posted by granadaok View Post
                  It appears I have got the rules confused.I was under the impression the Papers had to be in my Hand.
                  If you successfully avoid service, then if the case proceeds in your absence, the tenants will almost certainly obtain judgement in their favour, which they can enforce against you. If you subsequently apply to have this judgement set aside on the grounds that you did not know about the hearing, then you will be heading off down the same road as before (ie: making false statements of truth, giving perjured evidence) etc.

                  In summary, you have very llittle chance of success, and should throw the towel in before too many further costs are added to the claim and/or you have some stern men in funny hats knocking on your door at 5 O' Clock in the morning.

                  If you want a contemporary example of a situation where someone ignored and/or dismissed their legal team and ran their own case based (so The Crown will allege, members of The Jury) on false evidence, then just look to the trouble Tommy Sheridan has potentially got himself into: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3060233.ece
                  Health Warning


                  I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

                  All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

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                  • #10
                    As stated above you should not have indicated that a solicitor is representing you when he is not. You can write to the court and the T and indicate that you are now acting in person - tthis means you can then attend at the hearing and represent yourself.

                    I would suggest looking to settle the case and maybe phone the tenants and discuss things - this is usually more productive than letters.
                    PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

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                    • #11
                      It seems to me that you have not communicated your high expectations well enough at the start of the tenancy. I would be happy that the tenants had made an attempt to close up the holes and accept repainting of walls as falling under general wear and tear. Unfortunately you may be seen as the one being unreasonable and wasting the Courts time.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paul Gibbs View Post
                        As stated above you should not have indicated that a solicitor is representing you when he is not. You can write to the court and the T and indicate that you are now acting in person - tthis means you can then attend at the hearing and represent yourself.

                        .
                        However, his problem is not so much one of representation from here on in, but of signing a SoT when the information given above it was false. What if the tenants have cottoned on to the deception and the truth comes out in Court?

                        If I were him, I'd drop this case like a hot stone.
                        Health Warning


                        I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

                        All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by agent46 View Post
                          However, his problem is not so much one of representation from here on in, but of signing a SoT when the information given above it was false. What if the tenants have cottoned on to the deception and the truth comes out in Court?

                          If I were him, I'd drop this case like a hot stone.
                          True, however, if he is insistent on proceeding then a notice of change will allow him to represent himself.

                          The real issue is that IIRC by him saying he has solicitors then any documents served on them are deemed valid service. Also query whether the solicitors are put on the court record as acting because of OP's actions (I think they are) so that there is an obligation on them to either attend or apply to come off record. I doubt they would be too happy either way and may claim the costs of such work from OP.
                          PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

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                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=agent46;118043]Did you see the little declaration at the foot of the form? It's called a Statement of Truth and signing it in the knowledge that the form contains false information is an offence (contempt of court). Therefore, quite apart from the fact that you might get into trouble with the Police, the judge will take a very, very dim view of this and will assess your credibility at something approaching zero and you will lose the case and also very probably have substantial costs awarded against you. Not only that, but if you give the same evidence under oath, you will be committing yet another criminal offence (perjury and/or attempting to pervert the course of justice)



                            I will look at the link,Thankyou.

                            I did not sign the Declaration on either my Witness Statement or my Counterclaim.

                            I did not fill in the Court form that required you to add your Solicitors name.I mmearly added their details to the Front of my Statement.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arl View Post
                              It seems to me that you have not communicated your high expectations well enough at the start of the tenancy. I would be happy that the tenants had made an attempt to close up the holes and accept repainting of walls as falling under general wear and tear. Unfortunately you may be seen as the one being unreasonable and wasting the Courts time.
                              I feel I was misled by these Tenants and their previous LL who provided me with a referance for them.The LL told me that in 3 years they had been the perfect Tenants.

                              Comment

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