Using forms N5 N5B and N119: possession proceedings

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    #1

    Using forms N5 N5B and N119: possession proceedings

    Hi,

    I have served a Section 8 notice on two separate tenants of flats I let, both for non-payment of rent. How do I go about the court action as I am uncertain if I require certain forms,etc., to go to court. Thank you.
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    #2
    Eviction- use of forms N5 and/or N5B?

    I have a property that the tenant is claiming HB (direct tenant payments). The Tenant is in arrears and has been witholding some of the HB payments (about 1/3rd, although claims he has passed everything received on to us) - we only found out because we discovered he had signed the disclosure waiver when filling the forms for HB out - the council told us all the payments made. T also has dog staying at property which has caused some damage but looks like it was made good - L was adamant against pets (and smoking, come to that).

    We have served a S21 and S8 on the mandatory ground (two months rent unpaid) and a few discretionary grounds (G17 and persistently late payments plus damage to property).

    Where do we go from here? Do I have to fill out form N5 for the standard possession process and ALSO fill out form N5B for accellerated possession?

    Or does Form N5 cover both notices that were issued (while allowing a payment order to be made?).

    The Form N5 makes refernces to "full particulars of the claim are attached". The only reference I can find to this is in
    http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c.../n5c_e1007.pdf
    which states what to label your notice. Do you have to write a letter outlining steps taken, when notice served, by whom and what evidence to support, etc.

    Come the hearing date, if a standard possession hearing is heard will the fact that a S21 and S8 were both served guarantee possession? Will the fact we served a S21 preclude us from making a claim for rent?

    Any help appreciated.
    Liability statement. My liability to you is not to exceed the amount you are paying for my recommendations or advice.

    I see a bright new future, where chickens can cross the road with no fear of having their motives questioned

    Comment

      #3
      I think there is some confusion here. Has the teancy come to an end. If not, then you cannot use the accelerated procedure and certainly cannot claim rent arrears. You would either serve a section 8 notice or a section 21 notice (depending on circumstances and facts) but not both.

      Comment

        #4
        Using forms N5 N5B and N119: possession proceedings

        Hello all, I wonder if some of you enlightened individuals could shed some light on a matter i'm involved in.

        I have a tenant who's tenancy ran out a while back, I had issues of rent not being paid on time etc. and him also being a pain, ( he complains about anythign i do, called the police when i went to hand in the notice to him!!!!!) plus I need the propery back so a family member can stay there. so I issued him with a section 21 notice. Which has now expired.
        He says the only way he's going to go is if he's evicted through the courts so he can claim a council house (arghhh) (he's on benefits with a young baby)

        He has given me the merry go round with changing the name of the rent from the housing benefits to his name a few times. Basically he's meant to pay £100 rent a week, I now get £95 through the housing benefit lot , so he has to pay the top up himself, which he hasn't paid the for a long time which has accumulated to around £1770 something.

        Now for the court possesion order i have 2 forms, N5 and the N119.
        but they ask for the section 8 to be attached, which I have'nt given to him as I thought a section 21 would be better and quicker in the long run.

        Should I issue him with a section 8 as well just to be extra safe? is it even worth trying to get the money back as he's on benefits and I'm not going to get much from him. should i just go throught the accelerated procedure instead. I just thought the money judgement order would also give him stress as he's given me the stress the time he's been my tenant.

        Also would I be able to get rid of him now and then be able to claim the money from him later?

        I would really appreciate some advice as its making me bald with stress.

        Thank you all

        Comment

          #5
          If your Section 21 has already expired then go with that - there's no point doing Section 8 to be extra safe, as S8 is discretionary whereas Section 21 is mandatory. If you'd already served S8, then it would probably be worth doing S21 too to be 'extra safe' but not the other way round.

          If you want to claim arrears, you can do so separately as a Small Claim; though as you say it's worth in terms of recouping cash is probably limited.

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
            s.8 is discretionary whereas Section 21 is mandatory. If you'd already served S8, then it would probably be worth doing S21 too to be 'extra safe' but not the other way round.
            Not so! Grounds 1-8 of Schedule 2 are mandatory, if used in s.8 Notice, and these include g8 (two months' rent unpaid, usually).
            It's only g9-17, inc. 14A, that are discretionary; these include g10/g11 ([g10]any rent unpaid; and [g11] persistent late rent payment).
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment

              #7
              Thanks for the replies. I didn't understand what Jeffrey was sayign he seemed to speak in code. sorry!

              So basically the gist is... why do i need a section 8 with the forms N119 and N5 for court possession and rent arrears? will a rent statement and section 21 suffice?

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by Ophelia View Post
                Thanks for the replies. I didn't understand what Jeffrey was sayign he seemed to speak in code. sorry!

                So basically the gist is... why do i need a section 8 with the forms N119 and N5 for court possession and rent arrears? will a rent statement and section 21 suffice?
                Sorry but it is technical! The point was merely that s.8 contains some mandatory grounds- despite Eric's last comment.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment

                  #9
                  The mandatory grounds do not affect the individual in this case though as surely its a S8 part 10/11? As below.

                  Ground 10 Any amount of rent is in arrears at the date of service of the notice and remains unpaid on the date on which the proceedings for possession are begun.
                  Ground 11 The tenant has repeatedly failed to pay rent.
                  [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]

                  Comment

                    #10
                    why does ground 8 not apply? the arrears are over £1000 and from OP's indication that is over 8 weeks
                    PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ophelia View Post
                      Basically he's meant to pay £100 rent a week, I now get £95 through the housing benefit lot , so he has to pay the top up himself, which he hasn't paid the for a long time which has accumulated to around £1770 something.
                      I can't really help, but this is something interesting. If the underpayment is only £5 per week, and he now owes £1,770, that means he has underpaid for the last 354 weeks, or approximately 6 years 9 months?

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by thevaliant View Post
                        I can't really help, but this is something interesting. If the underpayment is only £5 per week, and he now owes £1,770, that means he has underpaid for the last 354 weeks, or approximately 6 years 9 months?
                        More likely is that the underpayment was larger before than it is now.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment

                          #13
                          He used to get paid less by the housing benefit before

                          Comment

                            #14
                            well you can use the accelerated claim form (N5B) you need to attach the s21 notice to that. - just make sure your section 21 notice is valid
                            PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Thanks guys.

                              So can i attach a section 21 to the forms N5 and N119? instead of a section 8?

                              I'd do accelerated but the guys owes an awful lot of money.

                              Comment

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