Notices- s.8/s.21- and rent recovery

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  • Notices- s.8/s.21- and rent recovery

    firstly is it correct that if you wish to get money owed you need to serve s.8 notice or can you serve section 21 and then just not go down the posession proceedings route?

    secondly i have some issues with calculating the notice periods - if an AST is continuing and start date was say 18th March would you say date tenancy meant to come to an end was 17th September or would it be 18th?

    thanks for help

  • #2
    Originally posted by mousey View Post
    firstly is it correct that if you wish to get money owed you need to serve s.8 notice or can you serve section 21 and then just not go down the posession proceedings route?
    Neither Notice is itself a debt claim. Both seek to terminate the AST and regain possession for L.

    Originally posted by mousey View Post
    secondly i have some issues with calculating the notice periods - if an AST is continuing and start date was say 18th March would you say date tenancy meant to come to an end was 17th September or would it be 18th?
    If a six-month AST period begins on 18 March, it is treated as beginning at the start of that day (0000hrs.) and including the whole day

    So the period ends at 2400hrs. on 17 September. That's why such a Notice is usually set to expire 'after 17 September', i.e. once that whole day has ended, rather than 'on 17 September'- what earlier point in the day would 'on' mean?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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    • #3
      Thanks for the response - in terms of the first question i meant if you are seeking money and posession do you have to use s.8 notice? as if you use s.21 is that just for the accelerated procedure where you cant get a order for money?

      re the second question in my OP thank you - i was wondering this in order to work out when tenancy came to an end to then work out when notice should be given (if that makes sense!). ie if tenancy started on 18th March and two months notice required (rent payable monthly) is the expiry of the notice then not before 17th Novemeber?

      Comment


      • #4
        On your second paragraph: if you mean s.21, the Notice:
        a. can be served at any time once the AST has started; but
        b. cannot take effect before (at the earliest) the AST has ended.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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        • #5
          sorry the AST has ended and has continued... :S

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          • #6
            S.8 allows you to include any unpaid rent providing you don't want to use the Accelerated Possession Procedure, and providing it meets the requirements of two months unpaid rent at the time of service of the Notice and at the hearing too, if rent is payable (reserved) monthly.
            The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
              Neither Notice is itself a debt claim. Both seek to terminate the AST and regain possession for L.


              If a six-month AST period begins on 18 March, it is treated as beginning at the start of that day (0000hrs.) and including the whole day

              So the period ends at 2400hrs. on 17 September. That's why such a Notice is usually set to expire 'after 17 September', i.e. once that whole day has ended, rather than 'on 17 September'- what earlier point in the day would 'on' mean?
              Thank-you for the explanation regarding why we use "after" rather than "on". However, just to be pernickety, I'd suggest that "after" is similarly lacking in precision - how much after midnight on the 17th, does "after" mean? Wouldn't "immediately after" be better?

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              • #8
                Also if you go down the s8 route you will have to go to the court hearing but if you use the s21 and its not defended you shouldnt have to.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                  Neither Notice is itself a debt claim. Both seek to terminate the AST and regain possession for L.


                  If a six-month AST period begins on 18 March, it is treated as beginning at the start of that day (0000hrs.) and including the whole day

                  So the period ends at 2400hrs. on 17 September. That's why such a Notice is usually set to expire 'after 17 September', i.e. once that whole day has ended, rather than 'on 17 September'- what earlier point in the day would 'on' mean?
                  "on" implies within or before, a 24hr window
                  "after" just means not before. and is VERY openended.
                  ?

                  The Rodent
                  A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
                  W.Churchill

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rodent1 View Post
                    "on" implies within or before, a 24hr window
                    "after" just means not before. and is VERY openended.
                    Yes. L is entitled to start possession proceedings at any time AFTER the s.21 Notice's expiry.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think you will find that you can instigate proceedings before the S.21 Notice has expired providing the hearing date is after that date.
                      The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paul_f View Post
                        I think you will find that you can instigate proceedings before the S.21 Notice has expired providing the hearing date is after that date.
                        That hadn't occurred to me, but- yes- nothing in the 1988 Act (s.7, s.21, or otherwise) demands that the s.21 Notice must expire before L applies to Court. However, I suppose that the CPR might impose extra procedural restrictions on applications.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johnboy View Post
                          Also if you go down the s8 route you will have to go to the court hearing but if you use the s21 and its not defended you shouldnt have to.
                          but if you go down s.21 route you cant recover the outstanding rent so isnt it better just to use s.8 route?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            s8 allows a judgment for arrears but T can enter defences eg disrepair etc etc etc whereas defences such as that will not be considered by the court under s21.

                            LL has to weigh up which process is best for him - is a CCJ going to get T to pay? If T is a man of straw may be a waste of time and money
                            PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

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