End of fixed term; T believes that deposit unprotected

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • End of fixed term; T believes that deposit unprotected

    Hello guys,

    I'm new to this website and really like the fact that everyone seems willing to help. I assume a big part or reason to use these forums are because of a problems, unfortunately i have a potential problem.

    I have just come to the end of a 6 month tenancy and throughout the tenancy as far as i'm aware have been good tenants. Since we advised on moving out we have had the LL being very rude on the phone mentioning how god will look badly upon us etc etc. This come to a shock as the LL was always friendly before. Now we have moved out and handed the keys back the LL is mentioning things to us like a missing aerial wire, the grass slightly long(being winter is not best to be cutting) and also telling us how the gas needs checking. I'm concerned she is going to try and do us out of the deposit!

    With looking at numerous sites and reading up on deposits i'm under the understanding that it should have been protected although we have never recieved information on this. After approching the LL asking about where it is protected she become very hesistant and said a "friend" set it up(tbh she didnt know what we was talking about)

    Should i look at taking this matter further and if she hasnt protected it where do i stand?

    Sorry if this has been asked before!!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Maverich View Post
    Hello guys,

    I'm new to this website and really like the fact that everyone seems willing to help. I assume a big part or reason to use these forums are because of a problems, unfortunately i have a potential problem.

    I have just come to the end of a 6 month tenancy and throughout the tenancy as far as i'm aware have been good tenants. Since we advised on moving out we have had the LL being very rude on the phone mentioning how god will look badly upon us etc etc. This come to a shock as the LL was always friendly before. Now we have moved out and handed the keys back the LL is mentioning things to us like a missing aerial wire, the grass slightly long(being winter is not best to be cutting) and also telling us how the gas needs checking. I'm concerned she is going to try and do us out of the deposit!

    With looking at numerous sites and reading up on deposits i'm under the understanding that it should have been protected although we have never recieved information on this. After approching the LL asking about where it is protected she become very hesistant and said a "friend" set it up(tbh she didnt know what we was talking about)

    Should i look at taking this matter further and if she hasnt protected it where do i stand?

    Sorry if this has been asked before!!

    Your LL is being understandably nervous because she, too, may have just realised that she should have protected your deposit in a scheme (but did not). The penalty for this is that you can sue her for your original deposit back, plus 3x its value, so I can see why she is turning to religion, albeit a little misguidedly.

    Of the things you mention as being possible 'deductions' from your deposit, only the aerial lead is a valid one (assuming it was on the inventory to begin with, but has been lost/broken by yourselves). By 'the gas needs checking' I take it she means that the meter needs reading - isn't the bill in your name anyway? That should not concern her. If she means that the gas supply/ appliances need checking, then that is her legal responsibility - she cannot charge you for it.

    OK...write her a letter headed Letter Before Action. Tell her that unless she refunds your deposit in full within 7 days from date of letter, she will leave you with no option but to sue her for the deposit itself plus 3x the deposit, since it has come to your attention that she has failed to protect your deposit in a government approved scheme or supply you with the details of same, within 14 days of receiving your money. Send your letter by recorded delivery or by hand with a witness who can prove she recieved it.

    This letter should focus her mind wonderfully and if I were the gambling sort (which I am not), I would put a few bob on the prospect of her returning your deposit in full, grumpily, by your deadline. She probably knows that she has made a big mistake here which could cost her dear.

    When she has done so, you may like to engage her in the thorny theological question of whether God is merciful (as opposed to vengeful)...if you feel you want to ..or you might just want to cut and run!

    Good luck - get back to us if you need any more help.
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
      OK...write her a letter headed Letter Before Action.
      Blimey, hold your horses a bit! The tenancy has apparently only 'just' ended, and so far the LL has not said she's going to withold anything from the deposit - I don't think it's really appropriate to be threatening court action quite so quickly...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
        Blimey, hold your horses a bit! The tenancy has apparently only 'just' ended, and so far the LL has not said she's going to withold anything from the deposit - I don't think it's really appropriate to be threatening court action quite so quickly...
        Fair comment - Maverich, I take it you have asked your LL for your deposit back? What was her response? And how long is it since you moved out?

        Revised plan of action if not already attempted :

        1). Ask in writing/by email for the return of your deposit. Point out this should be done within 10 days of the end of the tenancy, unless there is a dispute over any proprosed deductions, in which case she should advise the protection scheme, and you, of the details

        2).If she does not respond to 1) either by refunding your depsoit or notifying you about the scheme into which she has put the money, then write the letter as advised above.
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
          When she has done so, you may like to engage her in the thorny theological question of whether God is merciful (as opposed to vengeful)...if you feel you want to ..or you might just want to cut and run!
          Hi

          It would actually be quite gratifying to find out that God takes a personal interest in landlord and tenant issues. I wonder whether he would be willing to resolve a few of the more contentious issues we occasionally grapple with on this site.

          Preston

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Preston View Post
            Hi

            It would actually be quite gratifying to find out that God takes a personal interest in landlord and tenant issues. I wonder whether he would be willing to resolve a few of the more contentious issues we occasionally grapple with on this site.

            Preston
            Ha! How can we know? It would be reassuring to think that the laws of the land are derived from some kind of moral law, at least. Perhaps people would care to suggest religious tenets of specific use to landlords and tenants. A couple to start you off : Do unto others as you would have others do unto you (in other words, provide some decent heating for the poor blighters living in your property), and :'Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (always pay your rent, and replace the TV remote control when you tread on it and break it).

            In fact, you could do a lot worse than the Ten Commandments (well, not all of them are strictly applicable to LLs and Ts but 'Thou shalt not steal' seems particularly relevant. And even, Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ox' Ox = deposit/washing machine, whatever).
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
              Ha! How can we know? It would be reassuring to think that the laws of the land are derived from some kind of moral law, at least. Perhaps people would care to suggest religious tenets of specific use to landlords and tenants. A couple to start you off : Do unto others as you would have others do unto you (in other words, provide some decent heating for the poor blighters living in your property), and :'Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (always pay your rent, and replace the TV remote control when you tread on it and break it).

              In fact, you could do a lot worse than the Ten Commandments (well, not all of them are strictly applicable to LLs and Ts but 'Thou shalt not steal' seems particularly relevant.
              Judging by the tenor of many of the posts on this site, I think "an eye for an eye" would be quite popular. Example: tenant's heating goes off, not fixed quickly; tenant entitled to switch off heating in landlord's own home for an equivalent period. Another example: tenant late with rent payment; landlord entitled to freeze equivalent sum in tenant's bank account for the same period.

              I think we have some more chapters for the Landlord and Tenant (Really Useful Stuff) Act.

              Preston

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Preston View Post
                "an eye for an eye"
                BIBLICAL NOTE: In fact, this mistranslated phrase means precisely what English law would seek: fair compensation, whether for personal injury (loss of eye) or, as here, loss of property's availability. It does not mean- and never did mean- the physical infliction of equal mutiliation etc. (or what the Romans called Lex Talionis).

                The error arose from misunderstanding of the Hebrew word "tachas": literally 'under' but meaning 'by way of compensation in monetary terms'.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mind the gap
                  But 'An eye for an eye' is not a principle by which any religion bids us act...
                  True, so see my last post.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry Jefrrey, our posts crossed. Yours is the more erudite, as usual!
                    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mind the gap
                      But 'An eye for an eye' to take its literal meaning is not a principle by which any religion bids us act...

                      ...because in its New Testament context the full phrase is something like :

                      'You have heard it said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth...but I say to you, turn the other cheek'

                      I will check chapter and verse.
                      Here it is:
                      You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39, NRSV)

                      Poor Maverich is probably wondering what on earth he has let himself in for, posting his innocent question, only to be bombarded with theology!
                      'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                        Here it is:
                        You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39, NRSV)

                        Poor Maverich is probably wondering what on earth he has let himself in for, posting his innocent question, only to be bombarded with theology!
                        The phrase appears in the Five Books of Moses (Pentateuch), way before your source!
                        See Exodus 21: 23-27 AND (more recently) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_for_an_eye, of which an extract appears below.

                        Lex talionis in Judaism

                        The Oral Law explains, based upon the biblical verses, that the Bible mandates a sophisticated five-part monetary form of compensation, consisting of payment for "Damages, Pain, Medical Expenses, Incapacitation, and Mental Anguish" — which underlies many modern legal codes.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                          Here it is:
                          You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39, NRSV)

                          Poor Maverich is probably wondering what on earth he has let himself in for, posting his innocent question, only to be bombarded with theology!
                          Yes, but the Old Testament is always more bloodthirsty.

                          Deuteronomy 19:21:

                          "And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."

                          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                          BIBLICAL NOTE: In fact, this mistranslated phrase means precisely what English law would seek: fair compensation, whether for personal injury (loss of eye) or, as here, loss of property's availability. It does not mean- and never did mean- the physical infliction of equal mutiliation etc. (or what the Romans called Lex Talionis).

                          The error arose from misunderstanding of the Hebrew word "tachas": literally 'under' but meaning 'by way of compensation in monetary terms'.

                          True and of course neither was I serious when I suggested that God might take a more direct interest in landlord and tenant issues.

                          But as an example of "modern thinking" on the subject (restorative justice and all that) I quite like the idea of "compulsory empathy orders" allowing, say, a tenant to switch a landlord's heating off.

                          Anyway, despite the efforts of many devout and theologically educated people, I know very little about religion of any kind, so I am sure that whatever I say on the subject will be wrong.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Bloodthirsty"? Not so.
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                              "Bloodthirsty"? Not so.
                              So, how about:
                              • Noah flees the flood (but most don't make it)
                              • David and Goliath battle it out (eyes played a big part in that one if I remember rightly)
                              • A whale munches Jonah up alive (always made me heave as a child, that one)
                              • Moses makes a great escape (but his pursuers don't)
                              • Sodom and Gomorra (well, at least they had a good time before they met their inevitable fate)

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Prospective Tenant NOT viewing Property
                                Guby
                                When a prospective TT is located overseas and is viewing the property through a 3rd party (friend; family member; other agent) what implications or risks could be for the LL.

                                Could it be possible that after the overseas TT move in the property to start a long list of complaints as the property...
                                29-07-2017, 09:49 AM
                              • Ending tenancy early / returning advance rent
                                purpleangel
                                Landlord has served me with S21 to leave property by 10 September. 12 month AST in England. Tenancy has been difficult last few months, major delays in repairs and I am still waiting to be refunded for a locksmith call out a month ago. I paid 12 months rent in advance due to having CCJs.

                                ...
                                25-07-2017, 21:35 PM
                              • Reply to Ending tenancy early / returning advance rent
                                Baldie91
                                You are right, I have no idea why I put the return rent part, and I didn't explain it very well did I?

                                My point was, he can't force the tenant out before the 10th.

                                If the OP agreed to sign a deed of surrender, on the condition the rent for that period was returned, would be...
                                29-07-2017, 09:28 AM
                              • Tenant's energy debt.
                                Gordonmrln
                                I am a landlord of a 2 bed end terrace, the property is owned out right. I am registered Disabled and this was the main reason I decided to rent my property out. As it was not a suitable property for my Disability. I would have to make some major changes that would devalue my property like installing...
                                20-07-2017, 22:08 PM
                              • Reply to Tenant's energy debt.
                                MrShed
                                It doesnt matter who requested to go to EON. It could have (probably was) the previous tenant, who paid all the bills.
                                29-07-2017, 09:23 AM
                              • tenant damage
                                mylifestory
                                Monday - tenants inform me they have no water. I'm away so advise them to ask neighbours and call water company as that's what it sounds like. I am right, water later restored.

                                Tuesday - tenant informs me water is coming through her ceiling (in huge storm we had 2 weeks ago) I advise...
                                28-07-2017, 21:00 PM
                              • Reply to tenant damage
                                leaseholder64
                                This doesn't make sense to me. If it is just a central heating boiler, it will either be, the old, open vent type of system, or a sealed system.

                                For an open vent system, the feed pressure will be limited by the height of the header tank, and any over pressure will cause it to pump over,...
                                29-07-2017, 09:05 AM
                              • Reply to Tenant's energy debt.
                                Gordonmrln
                                Hi there, Just one more question and I don't know if you've already covered this or not. But will there be a paper trail or something going back to say who first introduced E.on to my property. Because the reason I ask is that some where along the line E.on was instructed by someone to supply energy...
                                29-07-2017, 09:03 AM
                              • Tenant vetting for a novice...
                                RedHitman
                                I know this seems like a very silly and novice question to those of you who are experienced Landlords, but I have to ask.

                                I am about to start advertising my first property to Let and I will be managing it myself. The problem I have is, I just don’t know what order the tenant finding process...
                                28-07-2017, 11:19 AM
                              • Reply to Tenant vetting for a novice...
                                MisterB
                                I started out about four years ago in he same position. I also chose not to use a LA. I joined NLA and read just about every post on this forum, whether it appeared relevant or not. I wrote a business plan, which proved invaluable and kept me focused on what I was trying to achieve.

                                I advertised...
                                29-07-2017, 07:16 AM
                              Working...
                              X