Statutory periodic tenant- how much Notice to L?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Statutory periodic tenant- how much Notice to L?

    Hi,

    I have a question regarding notice period, I am currently renting a property and have been here for 3 years and 3 months, the contract we signed was for a 2 year lease. We have found another house and have had MARAS checks and have been agreed and given a date when we can move in etc.

    Now where the advice comes in - I sent a letter which arrived today to him and he has phoned this evening telling us that we need to give him two months notice.

    As you can imagine I'm absolutely seething with anger as everything has been agreed on the new property and we can't afford to pay him any more money plus our new rent.

    I have not signed any new contracts after the 2 year period. I'm guessing that he will get us on wording or something similar.

    Any help greatly appreciated.

    Notice by Tenant

    Where the tenancy has become a Statutory Periodic Tenancy (where the fixed-term has ended and no new agreement signed for another fixed-term) the tenant must give the landlord notice if he wants to leave:

    * The notice must be in writing
    * It must be delivered at least 4 weeks before the notice period ends or 1 month if rent is paid monthly
    * It must bring the tenancy to an end at the end of a full rent period.

    The notice period must end at the end of a tenancy payment period: for example, if the rent payment date is on the 20th of each month, the notice period must end on the 20th of the month or the 19th to be on the safe side.

  • #2
    Your status, after the two-year term expired, is that of a periodic tenant. The period applicable iis the rent frequency in the fixed term (monthly?) To end the periodic tenancy, you have to give at least one month's notice and thius has to end at the end of a tenancy month.

    L is certainly wrong in seeking two months' Notice from you. Nothing in the fixed-term Agreement governs the Notice period thereafter.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for that.

      Do you know any legal documents that I could use against him (just for proof) to tell him where to 'stick it'.

      If he disagrees with this then what would be our next step in action?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Icey View Post
        Thank you for that.

        Do you know any legal documents that I could use against him (just for proof) to tell him where to 'stick it'.

        If he disagrees with this then what would be our next step in action?
        See http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=16242 for an analysis, esp. re section 5(3)(e) of the 1988 Act.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


        • #5
          The concerns about wording are:

          'Commenencement Date:

          The tenancy shall commence on 29th Day of October 2005.
          and will continue at least until 28th Day of October 2007'

          Is this legal? And therefore would this mean this contract is still valid?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Icey View Post
            The concerns about wording are:

            'Commenencement Date:

            The tenancy shall commence on 29th Day of October 2005.
            and will continue at least until 28th Day of October 2007'

            Is this legal? And therefore would this mean this contract is still valid?
            That is the fixed term. Yes, it's valid. The statutory continuation procedure appears in s.5 of the 1988 Act.
            An AST continues, beyond term expiry, until one or other party ends it.
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


            • #7
              So, just to be clear.

              After reading that section (and a couple more). It would appear that our contract by virtue of not being a 'periodic tenancy' is a fixed term tenancy. And because there is no stated 'end date', the term has never expired. Therefore all terms within the contract are still valid, including the slightly odd requirement for a 2 month notice period.

              That's a pain.

              Landlord - 1, Us - 0

              Thanks for your help.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Icey View Post
                After reading that section (and a couple more). It would appear that our contract by virtue of not being a 'periodic tenancy' is a fixed term tenancy. And because there is no stated 'end date', the term has never expired. Therefore all terms within the contract are still valid, including the slightly odd requirement for a 2 month notice period.
                No, that's not what I said. It was a fixed term; that expired on 28 October 2007 [ignore the nonsense "at least" wording]; it's now periodic; and you'd only have to give a minimum one month Notice, as long as that ends when a tenancy month ends.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                • #9
                  I see!

                  Let me have another go at understanding this then...

                  I think the land lord is trying to 'have his cake and eat it' for want of a better phrase.

                  He has written the contract as a 'fixed term' in order to impose his own terms (2 month notice etc..) but by not fixing the end date (with the 'at least' statement) he hopes these terms remain in place after the end date which, if my understanding is correct, cannot happen.

                  The contract is either:

                  a) a fixed term agreement which has ended
                  or
                  b) a periodic tenancy (because of the lack of fixed end date)

                  Either of these mean that we are now in a situation where only 1 month is required.

                  Am I in the right area?

                  Once again, thanks for your help

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Icey View Post
                    The contract is either:

                    a) a fixed term agreement which has ended
                    or
                    b) a periodic tenancy (because of the lack of fixed end date)
                    It was a fixed term; that expired; and so a periodic tenancy then arose- this is what you now have.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just because a contract may say that you have to give 2 months notice that doesnt make it legal or enforcable. Other wise i would put in mine the tenants wife has to ...........mmmm cook me dinner every time the rent is late.

                      Comment

                      Latest Activity

                      Collapse

                      • S21 and refunds
                        tatemono
                        Because the poor old OP of THIS THREAD has seen it derailed by a long but nevertheless valid debate/argument/discussion about the interpretation of law, I've started a new thread because the discussion has raised some questions I'd like answers to.

                        Say I have a tenant, whose AST started...
                        18-08-2017, 05:52 AM
                      • Reply to S21 and refunds
                        tatemono
                        well I kind of hoped that the OP would get their thread back if it was rerouted here but I didn't realise that this really only arises where there is disagreement. Plus the debate over there shows no sign of slowing down despite the OP's plea (in post #39 that he's now confused!).

                        Ah w...
                        19-08-2017, 12:15 PM
                      • Reply to S21 and refunds
                        tatemono
                        okay... so if I'd asked them to leave in the middle of the period, then I'd have to refund but my example had them leaving at the end so no refund due....
                        19-08-2017, 11:35 AM
                      • Can Mrs T change locks?
                        Berlingogirl
                        Mr and Mrs T are splitting up. Mrs T is looking for a new place before giving notice to LL. Mrs T is going to give notice to LL then move immediately to new place. Mr T has mental health issues and verbally intimidates and bullies Mrs T so she needs to get out before he can start on her.

                        ...
                        19-08-2017, 07:32 AM
                      • Reply to Can Mrs T change locks?
                        mariner
                        Tenancies don't change just because someone (usually LL) changes the locks.
                        Mrs T needs specialist advice, as does LL if Mrs T explains her dilemma to him.

                        LL could offer Mr T a sole Tenancy after expiry of Mrs T's Notice.
                        19-08-2017, 11:28 AM
                      • Reply to S21 and refunds
                        tatemono
                        My example was hypothetical. Both parties have "plans/wishes" and, feelings aside, there are plenty of reasonable situations where a LL might want to ask a decent T to leave their home.

                        We have two properties where we might have to do this in the next few years. One involves co-ownership...
                        19-08-2017, 11:26 AM
                      • Reply to Can Mrs T change locks?
                        theartfullodger
                        Dunno, apologies, good for you helping. Think she should 'phone Shelter 0808 800 4444, open today
                        19-08-2017, 10:11 AM
                      • Tenants from Council Waiting List
                        wilfred
                        If you get tenants from the council waiting list, and the council pay the monthly rent direct to the LL, when their 12 month tenancy comes to an end, do the council still advise them to remain if the tenant has nowhere else to stay? It would be all the same if the LL wanted to sell the property asa...
                        17-08-2017, 19:40 PM
                      • Reply to Tenants from Council Waiting List
                        wilfred
                        Thanks for clarifying that for me artfullodger, and I didn't know they were homeless people the council asks LLs to house for 12 months.
                        19-08-2017, 10:03 AM
                      • Reply to Can Mrs T change locks?
                        Berlingogirl
                        Artful - It's not that's going to be changing the locks - It's Mrs T.

                        I'm not the landlord in this instance. Sorry, I should have made that clear.

                        Mrs T is concerned that if Mr T remains in the property after the notice period ends she will be responsible for all the ££££...
                        19-08-2017, 08:57 AM
                      Working...
                      X