Can anyone define 'Landlord'?

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  • Sorrel
    replied
    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
    You'll swear all that under oath, will you?!
    Ha no im more scared of the landlord than anything else!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bel
    replied
    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
    Suppose:

    ·If A grants a tenancy to B

    ·B then grants a tenancy to C

    ·C then grants a tenancy to D

    We then have the position where:

    ·A is the head landlord and also the superior landlord to B, C and D.

    ·B is the superior landlord to C and D and also a mesne landlord.

    ·C is the superior landlord to D and also a mesne landlord.

    ·A is B's immediate landlord, B is C's immediate landlord and C is D's immediate landlord.

    ·B is a tenant and C and D are undertenants or sub-tenants. D may also be referred to as a sub-undertenant.

    ·The tenancy granted by A to B is a tenancy, and once a sub-tenancy is granted will be referred to as the head or superior tenancy.

    ·The tenancy granted by B to C is a sub-tenancy or undertenancy.

    ·The tenancy granted by C to D is also a sub-tenancy or undertenancy, but may also be referred to as a sub-undertenancy.

    ·Each of A, B, C and D owns an estate in the land and is entitled to possession in the strict legal sense of the word, but only D is entitled to occupation.

    All sub-tenancies are of course tenancies - the "sub" just indicates it is not a head tenancy.

    The following can also happen:

    ·A grants a tenancy to B

    ·A then grants another tenancy of the same property to C

    In this case the second tenancy is a concurrent tenancy and does not carry with it a right to occupation. It is superior to the first tenancy, but the first tenancy does not become a sub-tenancy. So long as the second tenancy lasts, C is entitled to rent from B and to enforce the terms of the tenancy.

    Reminds me of a sketch with John Cleese, Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Suppose:

    ·If A grants a tenancy to B

    ·B then grants a tenancy to C

    ·C then grants a tenancy to D

    We then have the position where:

    ·A is the head landlord and also the superior landlord to B, C and D.

    ·B is the superior landlord to C and D and also a mesne landlord.

    ·C is the superior landlord to D and also a mesne landlord.

    ·A is B's immediate landlord, B is C's immediate landlord and C is D's immediate landlord.

    ·B is a tenant and C and D are undertenants or sub-tenants. D may also be referred to as a sub-undertenant.

    ·The tenancy granted by A to B is a tenancy, and once a sub-tenancy is granted will be referred to as the head or superior tenancy.

    ·The tenancy granted by B to C is a sub-tenancy or undertenancy.

    ·The tenancy granted by C to D is also a sub-tenancy or undertenancy, but may also be referred to as a sub-undertenancy.

    ·Each of A, B, C and D owns an estate in the land and is entitled to possession in the strict legal sense of the word, but only D is entitled to occupation.

    All sub-tenancies are of course tenancies - the "sub" just indicates it is not a head tenancy.

    The following can also happen:

    ·A grants a tenancy to B

    ·A then grants another tenancy of the same property to C

    In this case the second tenancy is a concurrent tenancy and does not carry with it a right to occupation. It is superior to the first tenancy, but the first tenancy does not become a sub-tenancy. So long as the second tenancy lasts, C is entitled to rent from B and to enforce the terms of the tenancy.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
    True. But Sorrel swore about it all outside of a courtroom, so...never mind!
    Almost every Affidavit is sworn elsewhere than in a Courtroom. That's true too of Oaths of Loyalty (MPs, Military, spies, etc.)

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    True. But Sorrel swore about it all outside of a courtroom, so...never mind!

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
    You'll swear all that under oath, will you?!
    Tautology: anything under Oath is sworn.

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by Sorrel View Post
    A landlord is the bugger that will argue with me about the cost of carrying out a repair and then tell me he has an illegal migrant worker that will do it for a lot cheaper
    You'll swear all that under oath, will you?!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sorrel
    replied
    A landlord is the bugger that will argue with me about the cost of carrying out a repair and then tell me he has an illegal migrant worker that will do it for a lot cheaper

    Leave a comment:


  • Poppy
    replied
    MaryQK, you've answered your own question. There several different ownership scenarios placing people in the position of "landlord".

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
    Silly question i know, but does anyone have the definite definition of a landlord? I know there are different types such as the owner of the property or "head" landlord or there can be a landlord who is not the owner but is entitled to rent (sometimes called mesne??).
    Easiest definition is-
    the person who:
    a. would personally have the right to reside/trade/etc; but
    b. has carved-out an inferior right for another occupier (T).

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
    Silly question i know, but does anyone have the definite definition of a landlord? I know there are different types such as the owner of the property or "head" landlord or there can be a landlord who is not the owner but is entitled to rent (sometimes called mesne??).
    It is the harassed looking person generally found unblocking the sink at midnight on a Bank Holiday while the tenants party. They are referred to by a variety of names, mostly more offensive than 'mesne'.

    Leave a comment:


  • MaryQK
    started a topic Can anyone define 'Landlord'?

    Can anyone define 'Landlord'?

    Silly question i know, but does anyone have the definite definition of a landlord? I know there are different types such as the owner of the property or "head" landlord or there can be a landlord who is not the owner but is entitled to rent (sometimes called mesne??).

Latest Activity

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  • Reply to Joint tenancy agreement, 1 tenant has already moved out
    by Yorkie2020
    Guess I've been very lucky this time. My niece has informed her partner that she is ending the tenancy and signing up for a new one in her name only and he is ok with it. She did point out that he will no longer be responsible for any more rent or bills when it's totally in her name.
    JPkeats,...
    27-10-2021, 02:02 AM
  • Joint tenancy agreement, 1 tenant has already moved out
    by Yorkie2020
    Good evening all,

    I wonder if I could get some advice on ending an AST tenancy in England.

    Originally a 6 month AST last Sept between my niece and her partner, I foolishly listed both on the AST as joint tenants and didn't list him as a permitted, there was no deposit paid....
    20-10-2021, 19:44 PM
  • Reply to Increasing rent
    by jpkeates
    There may be something on the NRLA website, but I don't know of a standard template.

    To be honest that clause doesn't seem to help you a lot, it stops you using a s13 notice (I'd wrongly assumed that because it said "may" you'd be able to) but doesn't actually help you with an...
    26-10-2021, 17:37 PM
  • Increasing rent
    by Berlingogirl
    Tenancy start date May 2020 in England. 6 month initial AST.
    My tenancy agreement says
    “The landlord may increase the rent after the first 52 weeks of the tenancy…..”
    Is there a specific form I should use?...
    26-10-2021, 13:33 PM
  • Reply to Increasing rent
    by Berlingogirl
    Thanks jpkeates, I looked at the form 13 but that’s for if you don’t have anything in your tenancy agreement with regard to a rent increase. Is there a pro forma for a rent increase if there is a condition in your TA?
    26-10-2021, 17:05 PM
  • Reply to Increasing rent
    by jpkeates
    If the tenancy is now an SPT, and you want to be ever so formal (and impose the increase without any agreement), search for form 13 (which is called something else on the government's tenancy forms page).

    Otherwise, you just need to get the tenant to agree and start paying the new rent...
    26-10-2021, 13:58 PM
  • Reply to Advanced rent and S21 Notices
    by jpkeates
    It is quite likely that the 2 additional months might be seen as a deposit, unless the tenancy agreement is very specific about the initial payment being for months 1, 5 and 6.

    If it is a deposit, you won't be able to use a s21 notice without returning it and the deposit will be unlawful...
    26-10-2021, 08:35 AM
  • Advanced rent and S21 Notices
    by Shorif908
    Hi All,

    I have recently had new tenants move in.
    the estate agent did the whole thing and put them in.

    The arrangement with rent payments was this. 6 months AST Tennants pay last 3 months rent in advance and then make 3 monthly payments in advance. Ie start of the month....
    26-10-2021, 08:06 AM
  • Reply to Advanced rent and S21 Notices
    by Lesney Park
    BUT to answer your question, yes the 3 months very much look like an unlawful deposit, being for a non-defined period (the last 3 months of a tenancy). If it is for a specific 3 months, its a bit lesss grey but then I'm wondering what you hope to achieve...
    26-10-2021, 08:35 AM
  • Reply to Advanced rent and S21 Notices
    by Lesney Park
    Never been shown previously

    Are you still using the same letting agents, did they come up with this "payment plan"?...
    26-10-2021, 08:33 AM
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