Rent Act tenant served with wrongful 1988 Act Notice.

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  • Paul Gibbs
    replied
    the landlords could concede, but if they dont and fight it you could get entangled in expensive litigation.

    The cost of preparing the statements will depend on alot of things. Solicitors charge using hourly rates. There are recommended rates set for each court area, most firms will charge those hourly rates. the rate claimed depends how qualified the solicitor is. In my area a partner would charge £203 per hour and my band is £151 per hour (plus VAT).

    The costs you incurred previously sound about right, but there is work involved in setting up a file so the cost for 'a single letter' appears alot higher.

    The time it would take to prepare the statement can be reduced by you doing work in advance of speaking to solicitors. If you get a letter from the ex landlord that is in his words setting out the background the solicitor can use that to prepare the statement. Its the same with your father. its much cheaper that way rather than a 2 hour meeting with the solicitor taking instructions.

    Have you checked whether you are eligible for legal assistance under the Legal Aid system? If not you can call me and I can discuss that with you (far far far too much typing to try and set out here!)

    as a 'stab in the dark' legal costs for just the statements would probably be in the region of £400 (ish) for the statements but if you wanted the solicitors to fight your case it will be more.

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  • montana
    replied
    thanks Paul.

    After we contacted the landlord from the 80's a couple of yrs ago, we also paid painsmith solictors to dictate a covering letter which we could send to the landlords, us just stating we are rent act tenants.
    That one letter alone cost us £170. We havnt done anything since, as we always guessed like what your telling us we should get some type of affivid off the 80's landlord, of which l'm sure he'll have no problem doing, as he's already said he's happy to stand up in court if need be to say we pay rent to him back then.
    And you right we really need to start to get a move on on all this.
    Its all still a bit above me l think, but as my Dad and Mum want this all finally sorted out, l'm gonna try and do it.
    It would be bloody amazing if we got the rent down to £1200 per yr, we know we are rent act tenants, its just the stress of all the possible court stuff that worries us.
    Do you think once the current landlords recieved the affidavids from the 80's landlord and new affidaivd from my dad explaining that he didnt really realise what rights he was giving up by making the 99 statement, they'll maybe concede ???
    would you also pls be able to advise us a rough estimate of how much a solicitors would charge to draw up these 2 afidaivids ?

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  • Paul Gibbs
    replied
    now you mention the issue of registered rents it starts to ring bells again - its not often I have to consider Rent Act tenants - its quite rare!

    A formal statement would be a statement that is set out in a specific format that could be used in court proceedings.

    basically for a statement to be admissable in court there are certain things that should be in it.

    it is set out in parts 32 and 22 of the Civil Procedure Rules - links below

    http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc.../pd_part32.htm

    http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...rts/part22.htm

    I would say to follow the provisions regarding an affidavit. It is a bit over the top but does no harm. Really it only needs to have the statemetn of truth bit at the end to be compliant as a witness statement.

    if you prepare statements now it protects your case incase worst case scenario - the ex landlord dies before any final hearing. At least in that situationif you have a witness statement its better than nothing!

    the issue between the other landlords is a matter for them, and again the tax issue is the ex landlords problem, however, just because it was paid in cash does not mean he did not declare it.

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  • montana
    replied
    Thanks Paul,

    thats good to hear your positive views on the 80's landlord stuff.
    We honestly thought he'd of told us to foxtrot oscar when we first approached him, but, he is even willing to stand up in court he said.
    l really don't know what position that would put him in with the taxman, having taken rent off us back then without giving us recipits, but he just said don't worry about me.
    l asked the situation before here about if we were proven to be rent act tennants and not assured tenants and was advised that we'd revert back to paying the rent that was regisitered on this property by the previous rent act tenant in the property before us, of which there is a rent registered of just £1200 per yr, and that rent is still registered and has never been removed, as l went down to the rent office some yrs ago and the officer there told me that.
    Someone also told us it would mean each landlord proberly trying to sue each landlord before them, over all this if we're proven to be rent act tenants.

    could you pls tell us Paul what a "formal statemet" is.

    thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Gibbs
    replied
    up to you how to proceed but a statement from the ex landlord will really help.

    You should get it as a formal statement now as it could take some time to get to court. Likewise your dad needs to explain why his evidence now conflicts with earlier statement. It is an issue but I doubt its major - as long as the ex landlord continues to help.

    Solicitor should not have suggested duress in my opinion. The test for duress is high and you will need compelling evidence - I have not see any of the paperwork or gone through it but I think an argument of duress is grasping at straws and unlikely to get you anywhere fast.

    the ex landlord is impartial and not directly connected to the litigation - I would expect a judge to rely on his advice.

    even if you are Rent Act tenants why will that reduce your rent? I have not looked up into the Rent Act recently but as I recall (hazy) rent increases had to be agreed - why would previous agreements on rent not be binding?

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  • montana
    replied
    hello,

    A friend has advised us to try and get a "sworn statement" from the landlord during our 80's tenancy stating all that he has said in the letter he has already provided to us saying we paid rent to him in the 80's

    l would like to ask you guys do you think my Dad should also make a new sworn statement explaining his reasons for his own statement made in 99 where he said he didnt pay rent until 91.

    l remember the solicitor we used about 4 or 5 yrs ago mentioning that my Dads signing of all the papers ["sworn statement/ short let tenancy agreements] over the yrs was likely to have been under "duress"

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  • montana
    replied
    thanks jta,

    we have utility bills and stuff like that from the 80's
    Its the bit about showing "proof" that we payed rent thats the grey area, as Dad payed rent in *cash* to the Landlord from 87 to 91
    Although we have now obtained a letter from the landlord from that period stating "to whom it concerns" Dad payed rent for that period of time.

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  • jta
    replied
    If your Dad's been there that long he should appear on at least the last two census counts and the electoral register for all those years.

    Leave a comment:


  • montana
    replied
    Thanks Poppy and Jeff.

    Unfortunately jeff we don't have the money now to fund a solicitor looking in all of this right now.
    The last 2 solicitors we went to, l seemed to know more about the different tenancy's than them, and we still ended up paying them a hefty amount of cash then.
    And your right we kinda have let it all become long drawn out.
    Jeff sounds on the ball on absolutetly everything, but, we could never afford his services without getting out a loan, and in todays climate l think l have more chance of winning Miss Universe 2009 than getting that.
    We just are trying to plan it all out on how to approach the current landlord on this, stating we are rent act tennants infact.
    l doubt he's gonna be happy about this. Do you think he'll accept Dad and Mum based on the letter from the old Landlord in the 80's ststing we payed rent back then to his company ?
    He for sure will question Dad's sworn statement he made in 99, it is contradicting what he will be saying now, so we need to know how to deal with this, along with the short let tenency agreements my dad signed afterwards.
    if we tell the Landlord we are rent act tennants and he says no we're not, what happens ?
    would it be upto us to force the landlord into taking us to court through us then only paying the registered rent on the property which is £1200 per yr registerd by the previous rent act tenant who left the property just before we moved in. ?
    and if the landlord did take us to court for arrears because we were now just paying what we considered is the real legal rent owing, could the consequences be us losing our home ? or do you think a judge would just ask us to pay the £1300 per month as before + plus court costs ?
    But if he did agree that we are rent act tenants would we get all the over paid rent for last 2 yrs ?
    This is the options we think are open to us, if anyone else thinks of any different options or or options are wrong will you pls reply.
    thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Poppy
    replied
    What a pity that it took that amount of time and your hard earned cash to be simply told that the section 8 notice does not apply to your type of letting.

    Sounds to me like your "legal advice" was very drawn out indeed to say the least.

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    We really cannot say more on basis of mere LZ posting. You'd need your solicitor to consider all information/documents and advise you.

    Leave a comment:


  • montana
    replied
    The evidence my dad has is the Landlords from 87 saying in a letter that my dad payed rent then, upto 91 when the landlords then gave my dad a rent book before they sold the building onto someone else.
    It was all payed montly through cash to landlords without any recipts.
    Will this be enough proof for a judge ?
    Wont' the judge question why my dad made a sworn statement in 99 [due to being given a rapid reposseion notice by another new landlord] saying he didnt pay rent until he recieved the assured tenancy rent book in 91, along with all the short let tenancy agreements he also signed up until 99.

    anyway Dad wants to go for it anyway, as we could get the rent reduced down to almost nothing we realise now.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by montana View Post
    Thanks Jeff,

    We all kinda have agood idea of the differences between the tenancy's pretty well, due to our long history in dealing with each landlord over the yrs.

    The real question for us is can we "prove" our rent act status to either the Landlord or a court.
    Don't know: can you? If you have the evidence, why not?

    Leave a comment:


  • montana
    replied
    Thanks Jeff,

    We all kinda have agood idea of the differences between the tenancy's pretty well, due to our long history in dealing with each landlord over the yrs.

    The real question for us is can we "prove" our rent act status to either the Landlord or a court.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    ASSURED usually means 'within 1988 Act'.
    PROTECTED usually means 'within 1977 Act'.

    See http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ead.php?t=5676 re the basics.

    Leave a comment:

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