Rent Act tenant served with wrongful 1988 Act Notice.

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    #31
    Thanks Jeff.

    The Landlord considers us to be just "assured" and not rent act tenants, l havnt mentioned this as l didnt want to confuse the issue l raised, but obviously hearing Jeffs advice its all very relevent.

    Can anyone pls advise us on if we "were" assured tenants as our landlord believes, would he then be correct in what he's said to us in his last 2emails ????

    Thanks

    Comment


      #32
      I do not agree that you can sue for the costs. If court proceedings had been issued that is a different matter. Pre-proceedings costs can only be claimed in limited situations and I do not think you would be successful at court.
      PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Preston View Post
        Hi

        So that we fully understand the position, could you tell us a bit more about your parents status - when the tenancy started, type of property, amount of rent, whether there is a written tenancy agreement, etc.

        Preston
        Hi, I know its a bit tedious, but I do wonder whether you should give a bit more information about the background to the tenancy so that someone can give you some advice on what your status is likely to be. Fair enough if you dont want to, but its very difficult for people to give you any sensible advice without having a clear grasp of your current position. I guess the key questions are:
        [LIST=1][*]when did the tenancy start?[*]who are the tenants?[*]is there a written contract?[*]how much is the rent and is it registered?[*]is the accommodation self contained - brief description?[*]does the landlord live in the building?[*]are there any other services provided to you by the landlord?[*]is the accommodation connected with the tenants employment in any way?



        Preston

        Comment


          #34
          Thanks Paul and Preston,

          l apologise once again for not given the full history, but honestly its so complicated and well beyond me to try to explain it all here.

          The Landlord considers us to be assured and for the moment all we want to do is try to recoup the £245, or as much back as possible.

          Unfortunately we just don't have the funds to employ someone to look in our tenancy history, which is long and complicated, and would cost us a fortune at the rates we see for solicitor's advice.
          l think just for a solicitor to access our status and all the other matters to do with our tenancy history would leave us unable to cover the rent in the very near future, and then where would we be.
          anyway thanks alot people.

          if anyone has any idea of a reply we can put forward to last landlords email we'd be extremely grateful.
          cheers.

          Comment


            #35
            Montana - its up to you but there are solicitors reading this post and willing to assist you as much as possible without charge, its just we need more information about the tenancy before advice can be given.

            I am still of the view you cannot recover those costs, however, the legal secretary may not be entitled to charge you for the works actually done. There could be issues of breach of the Solicitors Act, but I would need more information on what work she did, where from, was there a retainer letter (a letter from her setting out what she will do for you etc)
            PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

            Comment


              #36
              Thanks Paul,

              My parents paid rent to the then landlord in the 80's, we were advised about 3 yrs ago from a solicitor that there's a good chance that we are rent act tenants.
              because there has been so many different landlords over the yrs and my Dad signed about evey piece of paper each landlord put infornt of him it all became very confusing for eacch new landlord figuring out what our status was each time one bought the building.
              The latest landlord says we are assured, we think based on the fact that we pay such a high rent of £1300 per month, which was increased about 8 yrs ago from £600.
              Unfortunately my Dad missed the cut of time to appeal this rent and the £1300 became the new legal rent.
              The solicitor told us 3 yrs ago although there is a good chance we are infact rent act tenants, the landlords will no doubt fight it tooth and nail, and he said he didnt advise us putting our parents through having to stand up in court to 100's of grey area questions he said that still remain unanswerd and that the "otherside" would do their dearest to make my parents sound confused over the whole matter.

              But my parents want to fight this now, myself as their son, l am trying to find out as much as possible now on our chances of success.

              Our advocate we used is not a legal secetery infact, she just told the landlord on the telephone that she had some legal secrtery training yrs ago, and nothing else.
              She also sent the retainer stuff you mentioned before she started helping us.

              Comment


                #37
                Well the payment of rent is evidence of a contract between the parties. If the contract came into existence prior to 15 January 1989 then your parents are Rent Act tenants.

                The fact your parents may have signed other documents afterwards purporting to reduce their security of tenure these are unlikely to be binding and your parents will remain Rent Act tenants.

                You now refer to 'we' can I just check you have not taken over the tenancy from your parents - are they still the ones living in the property and paying the rent? If they are not what happened and when? (it sometimes is possible to succeed to a Rent Act tenancy.

                The amount of rent you pay is irrelevant to determining the type of tenancy you have, although if you have a Rent Act tenancy then the landlord may be in difficulties to increase the rent in future.

                I understand the point about the landlord fighting matters, and your parents giving evidence, but by the sounds of it the landlord is the one in difficulties. It also sounds like your current landlord was not the landlord at the time of the tenancy so how will he be able to question what was said and done all that time ago unless he tracks down the old landlord.

                I am still unclear re the advocate - is it an organisation? did you get a valid receipt with VAT details etc? it might be nothing but might be worth looking into.
                PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Thanks Paul,

                  My parents still live at their home along with me.
                  l think we should of really tried to go for this rent act status 3 yrs ago, but my Dads health was pretty bad then.
                  It still worries us now going for it but my dad seems to be relishing doing it finally.
                  Dad even signed a sworn statement back at in 1999 [ along with a load of short let tenancy agreements before then] that he didnt pay rent until 91 when the then landlord gave my dad an "assured tenency" rent book.
                  The reason he made that sworn statement in 99 was because a "new landlord had just bought the building and serverd a rapid repossession notice on us saying that they just wanted the property back.
                  it was thrown out of court when my Dad produced the assured tenency rent book.
                  Dad says he said in the sworn statement in 99 that he didnt pay any rent until he was given the rent book in 91 by his old landlords because he simply thought that was the best thing to say and start everything from ground zero in 91.
                  Obviously he had no idea what rights he was giving up by saying that, he was infact paying the same landlord who gave him the assured tenency rent book in 91, rent from 1987 infact, unfortunately all in cash monthy payments.

                  honestly this is just the tip of the iceberg, it has lots of twists and turns.

                  We approached the landlords manager about 2 yrs ago, who my dad payed rent in cash to from 87-91, just to ask him if he would say Dad payed rent to him from 87 onwards.
                  We were amazed to find him very coperative and he said he would be happy to stand up in court and say we payed rent in cash through that period.
                  He has even written us a letter saying that in writing that Dad payed rent to the Ltd comapny at the time that was managing our home, and this guy was the managing director of this company acting on belhalf of the landlords at the time.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    ASSURED usually means 'within 1988 Act'.
                    PROTECTED usually means 'within 1977 Act'.

                    See http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ead.php?t=5676 re the basics.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Thanks Jeff,

                      We all kinda have agood idea of the differences between the tenancy's pretty well, due to our long history in dealing with each landlord over the yrs.

                      The real question for us is can we "prove" our rent act status to either the Landlord or a court.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by montana View Post
                        Thanks Jeff,

                        We all kinda have agood idea of the differences between the tenancy's pretty well, due to our long history in dealing with each landlord over the yrs.

                        The real question for us is can we "prove" our rent act status to either the Landlord or a court.
                        Don't know: can you? If you have the evidence, why not?
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #42
                          The evidence my dad has is the Landlords from 87 saying in a letter that my dad payed rent then, upto 91 when the landlords then gave my dad a rent book before they sold the building onto someone else.
                          It was all payed montly through cash to landlords without any recipts.
                          Will this be enough proof for a judge ?
                          Wont' the judge question why my dad made a sworn statement in 99 [due to being given a rapid reposseion notice by another new landlord] saying he didnt pay rent until he recieved the assured tenancy rent book in 91, along with all the short let tenancy agreements he also signed up until 99.

                          anyway Dad wants to go for it anyway, as we could get the rent reduced down to almost nothing we realise now.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            We really cannot say more on basis of mere LZ posting. You'd need your solicitor to consider all information/documents and advise you.
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                              #44
                              What a pity that it took that amount of time and your hard earned cash to be simply told that the section 8 notice does not apply to your type of letting.

                              Sounds to me like your "legal advice" was very drawn out indeed to say the least.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Thanks Poppy and Jeff.

                                Unfortunately jeff we don't have the money now to fund a solicitor looking in all of this right now.
                                The last 2 solicitors we went to, l seemed to know more about the different tenancy's than them, and we still ended up paying them a hefty amount of cash then.
                                And your right we kinda have let it all become long drawn out.
                                Jeff sounds on the ball on absolutetly everything, but, we could never afford his services without getting out a loan, and in todays climate l think l have more chance of winning Miss Universe 2009 than getting that.
                                We just are trying to plan it all out on how to approach the current landlord on this, stating we are rent act tennants infact.
                                l doubt he's gonna be happy about this. Do you think he'll accept Dad and Mum based on the letter from the old Landlord in the 80's ststing we payed rent back then to his company ?
                                He for sure will question Dad's sworn statement he made in 99, it is contradicting what he will be saying now, so we need to know how to deal with this, along with the short let tenency agreements my dad signed afterwards.
                                if we tell the Landlord we are rent act tennants and he says no we're not, what happens ?
                                would it be upto us to force the landlord into taking us to court through us then only paying the registered rent on the property which is £1200 per yr registerd by the previous rent act tenant who left the property just before we moved in. ?
                                and if the landlord did take us to court for arrears because we were now just paying what we considered is the real legal rent owing, could the consequences be us losing our home ? or do you think a judge would just ask us to pay the £1300 per month as before + plus court costs ?
                                But if he did agree that we are rent act tenants would we get all the over paid rent for last 2 yrs ?
                                This is the options we think are open to us, if anyone else thinks of any different options or or options are wrong will you pls reply.
                                thanks

                                Comment

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