Rent Act tenant served with wrongful 1988 Act Notice.

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    #16
    Originally posted by montana View Post
    Can anyone please tell me the amount of reasonable time we have to give the Landlord in asking for him to to pay back our costs incurred, due to him wrongly issueing a Section 8 Notice ?
    Can we threaten to take him to the small claims court in :
    7 days , 14 days, 28 days ??? if he doesnt reply to our letter asking him to pay our costs. ???
    Hi Mo,
    I would probably give it 10 days but don't think it's an exact science. Head it "Letter Before Action"; and you should follow through with it if you threaten to do so.

    Comment


      #17
      Thanks Eric,

      Was really hoping we could just deduct the £245 from the next rent, but, as Jeff pointed out to me, it doesnt work like that.
      Not looking forward to going down the small claims route, as l'm not exactly poetic in explaining things on paper. we might give it a go though as £245 is not a small amount to us.
      Thanks.

      Comment


        #18
        Hi

        I definitely agree that it would be very risky to deduct these costs from future rent payments. As a tenant you do not have an unrestricted right of "set off", unless your tenancy agreements says otherwise.

        (Incidentally, the leading case on the issue of set off in relation to residential lettings is Lee Parker v Izzet 1971 - google and you will get an idea of the procedure you need to go through in relation to a legitimate set off).

        There is a further problem, namely, its not entirely clear from what you have said that your landlord actually owes you a debt - and no set off is valid (even if permitted under the tenancy agreement) if there is no debt to be set off. The landlord might argue that if was your choice to employ a paid advisor and that the problem was corrected before any court proceedings commenced.

        Having said all this, I have a great deal of sympathy with your position. A number of landlords employ agents who simply dont know what they are doing and leave it to you as the tenant to prove them wrong.

        My best advice I think would be to record your claim in writing with the landlord and if ever he takes action against you for a debt, bring this forward as a counter claim and ask the court to to make a judgement in your favour. I wouldn't put your chances very high, but it would be worth a try if it became necessary.

        Or alternatively, you could as you suggest attempt to sue him, but I wouldnt rate your chances very high I'm afraid.

        Good luck.

        Preston

        Comment


          #19
          thanks preston,

          the section 8 was filled with almost all totally wrong said facts.
          All these incorrect statements can be proven wrong by letters and emails we sent to the managing agents over the past 2 yrs, along with proof from the previous owners saying we were upto date with our rent.
          The current landlord just didnt believe we were not in arrears as we had already proven to him we were not by the prvious landlords decloration letters to us.
          Wha tthis landlord didnt do was look through all the email correspondence from the managing agents, and he just continued not to believe us.
          He only eventaull believed us when our advocate sent strong letters to him warning him of harressment and that he needs to sit down and thouroghly go through all our correspondence with the managing agents.
          By this time the email and letter bill between our advocate and the totally deaf landlord had amounted to £245.
          the advocate had to look through the what was totally "made -up" fictious figures by the landlord and managing agents and correct and prove all their figures 1 at a time.
          it would be totally impossible to expect an old aged couple to do all this all by themselves considering their current ill health issue's also.
          l actually was totally confused by the schedule and chart the landlord produced.
          and in the end it was all proven to be absolutely man made and false.
          do you still think the courts will think we were excessive in out costs in using this advocate in these circumstances ?
          The real problem is going to be putting all this down in writing l think.

          Comment


            #20
            Hi

            No, I doubt whether anyone would think that your response has been excessive and I think that many perhaps most judges would be very sympathetic towards your parents. Unfortunately, getting a judge to make a order in your favour is another matter.

            I think that they might take the view that people seek advice on all sorts of issues and disputes in everyday life and that if the courts intervened to award costs in every case then they might get bogged down.

            But what do I know? If I was in your position, I would probably pursue it too, although not with much expectation of success. As you say, I think it will be very important to lay the facts out very clearly - why not ask people on this site to look it over for you when you have done it?

            You probably tried this anyway, but if there are any free advice services in your area they might be worth considering for the future.

            Anyway, I wish you every success.

            Preston

            Comment


              #21
              Thanks Preston,

              We finally got a reply yesterday from the Landlord via email, he said :

              * Regrettably I am not prepared to meet any costs. I hope that following my intervention we all in fact saved a lot of costs. I also took the step, as a gesture of goodwill, of withdrawing the s21 notice. *




              As you all know it was the managing agents employed by him that caused all these problems, and the landlord himself that continually disbelieved all the facts we threw at him until finally he admitted the error's after some very stern letters from our advocate.

              Please can anyone advise us on a reply to his short email .

              Thanks

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by montana View Post
                Please can anyone advise us on a reply to his short email .
                If you think you can win the case, now would be the time to respond with the Letter Before Action.

                Bear in mind though that win or lose, if you do pursue this course of action, the LL will almost inevitably restart reposession proceedings, so it also depends on how badly your parents want to stay put... if they win and get a refund of the costs incurred, how happy will they be when they find themselves evicted in consequence? May be better just to draw a line under this...

                Comment


                  #23
                  thanks Eric,

                  how can my parents be evicted? they are protected rent act tenants.
                  The whole issueing of the section 8 notice was unlawful and a mistake, they have never been in arrears,this error has been admitted finally in wrting by the landlord. l am not sure what the section 21 notice has to do with anything.
                  If l can put all this down explaining what the landlord and agents did, forcing my parents to seek professional help, after they refused to listen to our then later proven explinations and paperwork, l will do. The problem is me wrting this all down clearly, we'd use the advocate again but l think at £40 per hour its just well beyond our finnancial means now.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Hi

                    So that we fully understand the position, could you tell us a bit more about your parents status - when the tenancy started, type of property, amount of rent, whether there is a written tenancy agreement, etc. As you point out, if they are old style rent act (or what used to be know as regulated) tenants, or even if they are fully assured tenants, then they have substantially more security than might otherwise have been the case. It doesnt alter your chances of winning a successful action for the £245, but it definitely impacts on any "retaliatory" action they may be able to take.

                    Preston

                    Comment


                      #25
                      yes they are rent act tenants, so we have no idea what the landlord is saying "good will gesture removing the section21 notice".
                      this is what he has been like the whole last month us trying to deal with him.
                      We finally got the apology thought by him in writing saying the section 8 was a mistake.
                      we really want to follow through with this as he really stressed out my parents the last month.
                      and he is saying he saved us costs, it is him who is reponsible for his managing agents, and it is his company that served the section 8 notice on us, which we had never even heard of before, all in all the advocate said that whole thing wasnt even worth fish n chips paper wrapping, but the whole point is not just how unlawful the section 8 notice was, but the landlord not beleiving our emails and letters and proof we sent him and continueing to threaten my parents with court action.

                      is there any quick reply we can sent to him in reply to his confusing email, while we figure out to word a full letter before action letter ???

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Again: s.8/s.21/entire 1988 Act do not apply to Rent Act 1977 tenancies of the various kinds.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Thanks Jeff,

                          We have proven we have not done anything wrong though, and the landlord has admitted in writing that the whole thing was a mistake, "eventually, we can't understand therfore why he's saying he : "removed the section 21 notice as a goodwill gesture".
                          Can you enlighten us perhaps on what he means ?, or is he talking cr*p
                          And can/should we respond to his short email below ?

                          Landlords last email :
                          Regrettably I am not prepared to meet any costs. I hope that following my intervention we all in fact saved a lot of costs. I also took the step, as a gesture of goodwill, of withdrawing the s21 notice.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            If the letting is under the Rent Act 1977 [see posts #23 et seq.], no 'goodwill' is relevant. 1988 Act Notices simply do not apply. L is wrong on all counts! He served an invalid notice, as he now acknowledges, and he should bear all consequent costs.

                            To be on safe side, please state on what date the 1977 Act letting began. Let's verify that this assumption is correct.
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Thanks once again Jeff.

                              l sent the landlord an email this evening in reply to his last email which is posted in the previous posts here.
                              l just mentioned to him that his "goodwill gesture" was irrelevent and that would he reconsider his decision not to meet any of our costs due to his mistake in issueing the notice.
                              He just replied late this evening via email. Email below :


                              LANDLORDS LATEST EMAIL :

                              I do not accept the notices were invalid and certainly not the s21 notice. A landlord is entitled to serve a s21 notice at any stage without any reason.

                              I similarly do not accept you are entitled to any legal costs. No court proceedings were brought and even if they were I do not accept your “advocate” is entitled to recover legal costs. I understand she was a legal secretary and is not a qualified lawyer.

                              I will not entertain any further correspondence on the subject and will not be reconsidering my decision.

                              ************************************************** **

                              We never said to him we were trying to recover "legal costs", just our costs. is he right in thinking that we can only recover "legal costs" ? surely not.
                              On the subject of the section s21, can he serve such a notice on us as protected rent act tenants "without any reason" ? surely not.

                              If anyone can help us with a short worded reply to his latest email, we'd be very grateful.
                              Thanks

                              Comment


                                #30
                                (Sigh) Again: none of 1988 Act and none of its Notices can apply to 1977 Act tenancies. Geddit?
                                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                                Comment

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