Landlord served s.21 Notice; will not renew my tenancy

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  • Landlord served s.21 Notice; will not renew my tenancy

    I got an eviction notice today, stating that the company we rent from are not re-newing the tennancy, it was a section 21.
    On my notice to quit form, which i had to sign when i signed the tennancy agreement, it says that i give the landlord permission to take possesion after the 25th December 2005.
    I signed this agreement on 24June 2005, although they backdated that part of it, as it was actually 4th July 2005, when i signed the paperwork.
    I am in arrears with the rent, and the company want the full £400-00 paid by 23rd Dec, which i have said i cannot pay all in one go, i have offered to pay £200, but the Manager hasn't got back to me about it, i have rang the company this afternoon for 2 hrs, and the girl i needed to speak to was constantly "on another call"
    I spoke to them on 5th December as they told me they were going to revamp the house for me in the new year, i asked about the rent arrears, and they told me to just pay "a couple of quid" on top of the normal rent. the letter i got today was dated the 6th December.
    I was on the understanding that they have to give 2 months notice for me to quit AFTER the 25th December, not before. There is no mention of the rent arrears on the notice to quit, it just says they are not re-newing the tennancy, but like i said, they have told me, although only verbally, there is no need for me to worry about the rent arrears, as long as i pay the amount i can afford.
    Are they in the right to do this before 25th December, or does it not matter within the first 6 months of the AST?
    Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jane.

  • #2
    It sounds to me, althought it certainly depends on the wording, that the notice to quit you signed was an "advance" Section 21, which is a fairly common practice. The rest of my post is based upon this assumption. If that was a S21, then the landlord could being repossession proceedings against you immediately after the 25th of December(note I am assuming dates are correct etc - if dates are not correct they cannot, but I get confused with dates so wouldnt like to say one way or the other!). The 2 months notice can be given during the fixed term, as long as it ends on the last day of the fixed term/day after(cant remember which!). However, it is possible that the landlord has made this Section 21 null and void by issuing you with another. Unless he has put the words "without prejudice" on the one you have just received, I believe that the old one is void, and so they will not be able to claim possession for another 2 months. Sorry if this post is disjointed, dont believe any of the specifics from me, but think my general idea is correct. Not very well today!
    Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


    • #3
      Bit of a tricky one this, as there is no wording that says "without predujice" on either one of the letters, the one i signed in July (the one dated-24 June) says at the top of the letter;
      Housing Act 1988
      Section 21 (4) (A)
      my name

      From- the landlord

      known as; my address

      AFTER; 25TH DECEMBER 2005
      DATED; 24TH JUNE 2005 Although it was actually signed on 4th July)
      Signed by the tennant; me.

      That is the first one, the one i got today says;
      6th December 2005

      Re; the above address

      We write with reference to the above matter.
      We write to inform you that we will not be renewing your tennancy agreement when it expires, so we ask that you find alternative accommodation and leave the property of your own accord, failing this, we will have no alternative but to contact the courts and arrange for court bailiffs to attend your property.
      If you could please contact our office at your convinience.
      Yours Sincerely
      mr bloggs (Just a squiggle, no readable signiture)

      Does this count as an eviction notice? compared to the first one i signed?
      Thanks for reading this, to me this doesn't add up. Jane.


      • #4
        OK. The first one is a Section 21 notice. The second is not - it merely is a letter "reminding" you that your tenancy expires on such and such date, and that you do not have to have another 2 months notice as it has already been served. In this case, I would say(barring technicalites such as wrong dates etc) that they can begin repossession immediately after. You do not have to leave on this date, but you will be evicted within a matter of weeks.

        *EDIT* There is no requirement for a tenant to sign such a notice, so the date of signing shouldn't make a difference. However, if this date of signing would be construed to change the date of serving the notice, and such a date was not a valid date to serve(unsure whether it would or wouldnt - dont think it would be invalid to be honest) then this would affect the validity.
        Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


        • #5
          They never gave me a choice when i signed the tennancy agreement, they said i HAD to sign it! and i do have a witness to that, so basically, they can repo the property even if were to get straight with the rent? if that's the case, then it stinks! most of the conversations i have had have been mainly verbal, and they have assured me time after time that i do not need to worry about the rent arrears, i think their main goal was to take possession of this house from day one.
          If the landlord doesn't agree to the proposed payment i have offered, does he by law have to give me time to find somewhere else, or could i take them to court to see if they (the courts) would give me more time? as the properties round here, both private and council are hard to come by at the moment. I am on the local housing register, but i do not have any points. Jane.


          • #6
            No I'm sorry but it doesn't stink at all. So what if they required it as part of the tenancy? You had the choice to simply walk away. Why exactly does it stink that a landlord wants his property back from any tenant when their fixed term expires? Never mind a tenant who has not kept up to date with their rent. It seems that you think a landlord cannot ever claim possession of his property as long as the rent is paid. This may have been the case many moons ago, but not now, and all for the better.

            No he does not have to give you any time. He has to persue the eviction through the courts if you refuse to leave, but with a Section 21 notice this is a foregone, and fairly(by court standards) quick, conclusion.
            Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


            • #7
              No, I am not saying that a landlord doesn't have the right to take repossession, BUT, this company bought our house from us on a rent back scheme, and they told me, (verbally again) we can stay in it indefinatly, the reason why i am behind with the rent is because they took 4 months to mend the shower, and i had no other form of bathing, even for the kids, the EMH Officer told me i had reasonable grounds in which i was with holding my rent at that time, and the girl i deal with at the office understood the reason to, and she is one of the senior ones there.
              They have assured me like i said, time and time again that the arrears are not a problem.
              What has upset me more, is the fact that after all their re-assurences, they seemed to have backtracked on everything they have ever said, and when i ask them about things they have said in earlier conversations, they start making excuses, ie; the reason why my shower took so long to get fixed was because the workman was at houses that had caught fire, then a couple of days later, they have told me it was for a completely different reason!
              I know not all landlords are bad, and they do have the right to repo a property, but when you have been re-assured about things time and time again, it makes me bitter, to know that they can deny all sorts of previous conversations that has been said.
              IF the landlord agrees to my proposal of payment, should i ask him to sign an agreement? i know i can pay the full amount by the first week of Jan 2006, would it be upto him personally to agree to that? Jane.


              • #8
                AH knew you'd posted before, you were the one who thought you could take the landlords possessions when you moved out!!

                OK points:

                - If you are assured to stay there "indefinitely" get it in writing. Otherwise it means nothing. Thats basic common sense.

                - Who says the arrears are a problem? They do not have to give a reason for the S21 eviction. And even so, they may not be a big problem for them, but when it isnt really that big an issue for them to evict and then get someone who pays the rent on time, then why not?

                - Now. The landlord may have been in the wrong with struggling to fix the shower, but please dont use that as an excuse to be in arrears. If you were merely witholding until it was fixed, then why did you not pay it into a seperate bank account? And pay it back when fixed? If you were planning on keeping this rent as compensation, then it is not arrears(at least not so far as you are concerned) and you should have made this clear to them. It appears to me to be the former, especially as you have made attempts to pay it back, so there is no blame you can put on the landlord for this!

                - Yes it is up to the two of you to agree repayments. It would be in his interests to agree to this as any order he gets from a court would be most likely a small amount per week, if you plead poverty. In fact, you could potentially use this as a negotiation tool(VERY carefull), and say you will pay the full lump sum back if you can stay on(ask to sign another AST), otherwise the "financial costs" you will incur looking for a new place will mean that payment option will not be open anymore . And yes ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you agree with a landlord, and almost every other person when it involves money, should be put into an agreement in writing.

                I apologise for the tone of this post. However, you need to realise that you have made mistakes, some serious, when dealing with this landlord, and if you do not realise this by continuing to blame them on the landlord, then you will only do them again.
                Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


                • #9
                  Yes, i do agree with you, i realise that with hindsight (that very useful word) that i should have got things in writing, but they convinced me that things are ok, etc etc, they proberbly don't want to evict me anymore than i WANT to be evicted, we could go round the houses discusiing this couldn't we?
                  All i can do is see what tomorrow brings, and hopefully if the landlord wakes up in a good mood, then great! if not, i may ask to speak with him directly, and see what he says, although i know he said at first he wants it all by 23rd December.
                  And yes, it was me who wanted to rip everything out!! but i've come to the conclusion, it's only material stuff, can't take that with us if we haven't anywhere to go can we??
                  Thanks for your advice Mr Shed, If he does agree, i will personally take the money to the office and get him to sign an agreement, BUT, what if they say it doesn't matter? and just put me on a periodic tennancy? sorry for "nit picking" but i tend to look at every angle possible!


                  • #10
                    Personally, in your situation, I wouldn't "accept" periodic tenancy, as there is every chance that they will just go back on it again. And, as far as I know, the Section 21 stays valid indefinitely, so they will not even need to give you 2 months notice again. If thats all they will let you have, then stay on periodic, but I would be quickly looking for another house quick sharp.
                    Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


                    • #11
                      YES, I have an appt next week with the local housing place, from what they have said, i should be able to get re-housed, although not in the area i want, i am not saying this company is "dodgy" but they have a very "cloak and dagger" way of doing things.
                      Everyone i have spoken to have said they cannot understand this companies way of doing things, even my friends landlord said the same! I know they are registered with companies house, so they must be legit.
                      I wish, like you say, i should've got everything in writing, i know i have created problems myself, even one of the girls i spoke to at their office said i hadn't done myself any favours!
                      Even if they agree to the payments, i will still look into getting another property.
                      I would tell you the name of this company, but i know it is not the "done thing" on this type of forum, although i have read a post on here tonight, and i am wondering if that person is with this company, they sound as though they are having the same sort of probs as me!!
                      I will let you tomorrow what happens, Fingers crossed!!!!


                      • #12
                        Yes good luck....despite the tone of my posts earlier I hope you sort it, was merely to drum the point in! I'm the type of person that would want a signed agreement to lend money to my mum though so you know

                        Yes it isn't the done thing to post names, as even if you do not actually say anything about them, the pre-legal wrangling can cause almost as many problems as an actual libellous comment.

                        Oh well, take it as a learning experience, at least you will know for next time! I would consider, if possible, trying to comply as much as you can with their requests, as it will appease them somewhat with regards rent arrears and also in the case of possible future references. A simple conversation with them asking them to allow you to go onto periodic for a month or two while you find somewhere may be a lot more productive than you might think. However, if you do end up in a position where you do need to sit it out and wait to be evicted, bear in mind that because of the timing of the expiry of the notice, their eviction will take longer than usual, maybe even an extra week or perhaps a little longer.
                        Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


                        • #13
                          Good advice about the periodic tennancy, Mr Shed!
                          I will put this down to experience, a bad one at the very least, i will know for future reference not to take things at face value! and not to just take what people say as gospel.
                          Hard lesson to learn, but things happen for a reason i think, you never know, i could win the lottery next week!! ( can you see that pink pig flying overhead??)
                          No, i don't think your posts have been in a bad tone, as i appreciate some "straight form the heart" advice, and i can take "constructive critisism"
                          I will keep you posted! Jane.


                          • #14
                            I rang the company this morning, at 9-15am,and spoke to the girl who i couldn't get hold of yesterday, she said the MD was in, so i asked her if he would agree to my payment proposal, and she asked him, he said yes, but i have to make sure i keep up with the rent, i offered to do a direct debit every week, she is sending me the forms out.
                            I also asked her if the company would confirm this agreement in writing, stating that i can stay in the house, and i will not be evicted, she said she would put it in writing.
                            Let's hope they keep to their word!! If i haven't got anything in writng by next Tuesday, i will remind them of their agreement to put it in writing, tactfully of course, as i think this company is one where if you "speak your mind" shall we say, they will make things awkward. Will you posted. jane.


                            • #15
                     be fair, it sounds as if they are being fairly reasonable, and trying to work with you. Congrats.
                              Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


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