Can you evict and then let to same tenants?

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    Can you evict and then let to same tenants?

    Apolgoies in advance if this is a really silly question but i was wondering if it is possible to evict tenants (with Possession Order and bailiffs) and then allow them to rent the same property again? Will there be any legal problems in the long term, should i wish to evict them later on down the line?

    #2
    Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
    Apolgoies in advance if this is a really silly question but i was wondering if it is possible to evict tenants (with Possession Order and bailiffs) and then allow them to rent the same property again? Will there be any legal problems in the long term, should i wish to evict them later on down the line?
    IF the old letting is terminated for all purposes and T actually moves out (not just 'pretend' move), there is no reason legally why L canot re-let to same T. However, why on earth let to a known defaulter?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      I may be being a bit thick here but I can't see any reason why you would want to do that. Surely if you've had tenants who haven't paid their rent and you've then had to go down the route of possession orders etc, that ought to be the last you'd want to see of those particular tenants.
      When we let our properties we try to get the best tenants and are always pleased to find someone who doesn't give us any problems. We've never had "bad" tenants, but if we did I'm sure I wouldn't want to repeat the process - particularly not with the same people.
      Unless I'm missing something here my response would be "NO WAY".

      Comment


        #4
        It's a bit complicated but technically they are not bad tenants (just HB tenants and so i had to go along the PO and bailiffs route or they would not be able to get re-housed).
        Jeffrey, when you say "pretend move" - does that mean, i cannot issue them with a new tenancy agreement for the next day i.e. bailiffs arrive on 5th October and then 6th October we sign a new agreement?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
          Jeffrey, when you say "pretend move" - does that mean, i cannot issue them with a new tenancy agreement for the next day i.e. bailiffs arrive on 5th October and then 6th October we sign a new agreement?
          The danger is that the 1988 Act might run-together the old and new lettings, due to lack of a gap.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
            It's a bit complicated but technically they are not bad tenants (just HB tenants and so i had to go along the PO and bailiffs route or they would not be able to get re-housed).
            If you grant them a new tenancy, they will no longer be homeless and therefore will not qualify for rehousing in any event. If you plan on colluding with them in some sort of scheme to mislead the council, this is a very bad idea indeed because if the council finds out, then both you and the tenants could find yourselves in very hot water.

            (1) If the tenants succeed in obtaining council housing then they could be evicted on the grounds that they made a false statement in their application.

            (2) I believe that homelessness/housing application forms also contain one of those catch all "I understand that if I have made a false statement in this application then I may be liable to prosecution etc...." endorsements.

            (3) You would need to look very carefully indeed at your Particulars of Claim and any evidence served as part of your possession proceedings because you will be stating to the Court that you are seeking possession, whereas this would be in direct conflict with your intention to grant the tenants a new tenancy. In other words, by thus misleading the Court you may possibly be committing a number of offences - "perverting the course of justice", "perjury", "contempt" etc.*

            (3) I haven't got time to look into it, but I think there is a very good chance that procuring a court order with the intention of making an unmeritorious homelessness/housing application would, amongst other things, amount to a contempt of court. Both you and the tenants could be charged with the principal offence, or they could be charged with the principal offence and you could be charged with conspiracy or aiding and abetting.



            However, if it is not your intention to assist the tenants in such a scheme, then please accept my profound apologies. I wrote all the above in case I miss your reply, or you never post here again and you end up getting in trouble as a result of trying to help your tenants.



            * It's very odd indeed that this issue has arisen in two threads today.
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            I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

            All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
              It's a bit complicated but technically they are not bad tenants (just HB tenants and so i had to go along the PO and bailiffs route or they would not be able to get re-housed).
              Jeffrey, when you say "pretend move" - does that mean, i cannot issue them with a new tenancy agreement for the next day i.e. bailiffs arrive on 5th October and then 6th October we sign a new agreement?
              How are they supposed to pay rent the next time around?
              Why did you evict them in the first place?

              Comment


                #8
                Agent46 - thanks for your reply. The information was useful but that is not my intention. The PO was obtained with the intention the tenants would be leaving. Also reason why the warrant for possession (bailiffs) was also obtained. It is only now, when the date that bailiffs are to arrive is very close that the tenants have asked to stay (when before they wanted to leave). Because i have had no trouble with them i am willing to allow them to stay but the bailiffs are due to arrive tomorrow - hence why i am asking.

                Comment


                  #9
                  SEB - there was never an issue of rent not being paid. The tenants received HB and passed it on to me. They wanted to leave and now they have changed their minds.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
                    SEB - there was never an issue of rent not being paid. The tenants received HB and passed it on to me. They wanted to leave and now they have changed their minds.
                    Why did they want to leave - just felt like it?
                    Can't they inform the HB office of their change of heart?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
                      They wanted to leave and now they have changed their minds.
                      So unless I'm missing something, you evicted them because they asked you to do so... in other words, you are indeed colluding with them, basically in the manner agent46 suggests?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If it was easy for tenants to say they were leaving, then rent the same house the next day under a different claim, lot's of landlords would be jumping for joy because this would mean the same tenant would be entitled to the new housing allowance which is a lot more money.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Perhaps i did not make myself clear (apologies) - but from my understanding it really is not an issue about the HB office - i will NOT be getting an increase in rent nor will payments be stopped as the tenants have informed the council of their wish to stay and my willingness to allow this - so no paperwork should be altered or need to be changed. There is no colluding! How on earth am i to keep tenants when they want to leave - should i go through the trouble of receiving no rent for a few months and other problems, where in the end i would still need to use the PO route?
                          I am going to write a letter to the council as well, just to make matters clear, i certainly did not begin this process for some extra gain and i sincerely hope it was not my tenants' wishes either.
                          My original question was the bailiffs are arriving and they will be evicted (the tenants told me too late). Would it cause me problems further down when/if i needed to evict them from the same property?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
                            ...i was wondering if it is possible to evict tenants (with Possession Order and bailiffs) and then allow them to rent the same property again?
                            There is no legal reason why you should not do this.

                            However, the question arises whether this starts a completely new tenancy so that you will not be able to serve a S.21 notice to take effect until six months has elapsed. S.21(5) says:

                            (5) Where an order for possession under subsection (1) or (4) above is made in relation to a dwelling-house let on a tenancy to which section 19A above applies, the order may not be made so as to take effect earlier than—
                            (a) in the case of a tenancy which is not a replacement tenancy, six months after the beginning of the tenancy, and
                            (b)...


                            I think there is an argument that the new tenancy is not a "replacement tenancy". A replacement tenancy is defined as one which comes into being on the coming to an end of an assured shorthold tenancy. If there is a gap between the old tenancy coming to an end and the new one starting, the new tenancy cannot be a replacement tenancy since, although it starts after the old tenancy came to an end, it did not start on the old tenancy coming to an end. If the tenant is actually evicted there will be a gap. If the tenant remains in occupation after the day ordered for possession he is a trespasser unless a new tenancy was granted on or before the day after the day ordered for possession. If there is a delay in creating the new tenancy there is also a gap. The position cannot be remedied by trying to provide that the new tenancy started earlier, since it is not possible to backdate the beginning of a tenancy.

                            Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
                            Will there be any legal problems in the long term, should i wish to evict them later on down the line?
                            If you serve a valid S.21 notice the court must grant you possession. If you prove one of the mandatory grounds for possession the court must grant you possession. You may have a problem if you seek possession on one of the discretionary grounds.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by MaryQK View Post
                              Perhaps i did not make myself clear (apologies) - but from my understanding it really is not an issue about the HB office - i will NOT be getting an increase in rent nor will payments be stopped as the tenants have informed the council of their wish to stay and my willingness to allow this - so no paperwork should be altered or need to be changed. There is no colluding! How on earth am i to keep tenants when they want to leave - should i go through the trouble of receiving no rent for a few months and other problems, where in the end i would still need to use the PO route?
                              I am going to write a letter to the council as well, just to make matters clear, i certainly did not begin this process for some extra gain and i sincerely hope it was not my tenants' wishes either.
                              My original question was the bailiffs are arriving and they will be evicted (the tenants told me too late). Would it cause me problems further down when/if i needed to evict them from the same property?
                              Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't think you've told us why the tenants wanted to leave, which started this whole issue.

                              Also, if you had been clearer in the beginning, you wouldn't be getting irritated and narky in your replies now.

                              Comment

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