TDS case and Counterclaim

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  • looking4info
    replied
    Hi thanks for the replies, yes I agree he hasn’t got the money; I have written a very good letter to the judge which hopefully will help. I asked the court and I can’t enforce it until this hearing to set aside the judgement is over, I’m not too worried anymore, I have discovered the LL has told a few lies in his application, he says there was a witness but the court says they have no record of one, and the date he got it confused with happened to be a Sunday 

    Awt19 – The court process has taken 10 month since we started our claim. It took so long as we had to keep arranging different dates for the directions hearing, 1 they didn’t turn up to, 2 they cancelled and 1 we cancelled, plus the court was very busy and didn’t have many available dates. It wasn’t had to arrange there is less paper work from our end on an N208 form than N1 form. Just prepare your evidence, get their evidence and write your witness statement (summary of what happened) it is quite straightforward.

    Thanks

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  • looking4info
    replied
    Hi thanks for the replies, yes I agree he hasn’t got the money; I have written a very good letter to the judge which hopefully will help. I asked the court and I can’t enforce it until this hearing to set aside the judgement is over, I’m not too worried anymore, I have discovered the LL has told a few lies in his application, he says there was a witness but the court says they have no record of one, and the date he got it confused with happened to be a Sunday 

    Awt19 – The court process has taken 10 month since we started our claim. It took so long as we had to keep arranging different dates for the directions hearing, 1 they didn’t turn up to, 2 they cancelled and 1 we cancelled, plus the court was very busy and didn’t have many available dates. It wasn’t had to arrange there is less paper work from our end on an N208 form than N1 form. Just prepare your evidence, get their evidence and write your witness statement (summary of what happened) it is quite straightforward.

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Gibbs
    replied
    I think technically the deadline to appeal has passed. In any event usually an appeal can only be on the basis the judge got the law wrong - the court will not usually entertain a failure in a finding of fact (eg dates etc) I doubt the appeal will go anywhere. Might be worth considering using solicitors as if the application is unsuccessful then LL may pay your solicitors costs.

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  • awt19
    replied
    Sounds like he hasnt got the money and is back to his stalling tactics. Good to see the judge ruled in your favour too. Am going through the same sort of thing with my LL now and it looks like its going to go to court also. Not as complex as yours but the LL is withholding some deposit without having it protected. Was it difficult to get the court date sorted? What did you have to do? And I see it took you 13 months? Was that from the time you moved out? Why so long? any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • looking4info
    replied
    Hi I’ve had some news, LL wants to get the judgement set aside. He has filled a N244 form as he said he got the dates wrong and was fully prepared to go to court.

    Now my friend and I believe the matter is done and dusted and we are just awaiting our payment as the judge awarded in our favour based on both sides evidence not just ours.

    I’m going to file an enforcement form tomorrow but I’m just wondering should I be prepared to have to have another hearing again and the money being withdrawn?

    Thanks

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by looking4info View Post
    Hi update:

    Well my case was today (I didn't want to say before as I didn't want to jinx it) and we WON!!! YAY we won the full amount £1,200 plus £3,600 plus court fees and money for our day in court. Minus £200 odd for repairs and a replacement bin!!!

    So finally it is over 13 months after leaving that dreaded place!! We havn't got the money yet, hopefull it will go smoothly and it won't be another battle.

    The judge agreed with everything we said and thought the LL was talking utter rubish in most cases.

    Thanks for all the help and information here!!
    Celebrate ONLY once you have the £££ and L's cheque has cleared.

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by looking4info View Post
    Hi update:

    Well my case was today (I didn't want to say before as I didn't want to jinx it) and we WON!!! YAY we won the full amount £1,200 plus £3,600 plus court fees and money for our day in court. Minus £200 odd for repairs and a replacement bin!!!

    So finally it is over 13 months after leaving that dreaded place!! We havn't got the money yet, hopefull it will go smoothly and it won't be another battle.

    The judge agreed with everything we said and thought the LL was talking utter rubish in most cases.

    Thanks for all the help and information here!!
    Congratulations and well done. It warms the cockles of me 'eart to hear such news!

    Leave a comment:


  • looking4info
    replied
    Hi update:

    Well my case was today (I didn't want to say before as I didn't want to jinx it) and we WON!!! YAY we won the full amount £1,200 plus £3,600 plus court fees and money for our day in court. Minus £200 odd for repairs and a replacement bin!!!

    So finally it is over 13 months after leaving that dreaded place!! We havn't got the money yet, hopefull it will go smoothly and it won't be another battle.

    The judge agreed with everything we said and thought the LL was talking utter rubish in most cases.

    Thanks for all the help and information here!!

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    Past consideration is no consideration. To be valid, it has to accompany- or be directly linked with- the present transaction.
    Exception: if present transaction takes form of a Deed, this formality obviates the need for any consideration at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • looking4info
    replied
    Thanks

    I found this

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Consideration is a central concept in the common law of contracts and contract theory: it is value paid for a promise. Consideration is needed for a valid contract. An example; If you sign a contract with a man, agreeing to buy his car for an amount of money, his consideration is the car, which he promises to give to you. Your consideration is the money that you pay for the car. However, a contract saying that he would give you his car for nothing would not be valid per se, because you aren't giving him any consideration. In basic terms, the offeree (that is the person being offered something) must give something back to the offeror in return for his promise. There are several issues arising from, what appears to be, a quite simple doctrine. The main issues are outlined below:

    Of what value must the consideration be?
    Can performing an existing legal or contractual duty constitute consideration?
    Can a past-performance (also called past-consideration) be valid consideration?
    Williams v Roffey + Nicholls Ltd (1991) 1 QB 1 - a new dimension?

    Leave a comment:


  • agent46
    replied
    Originally posted by looking4info View Post


    Note: The ammendment was made when we signed the contract, infront of us, we all signed it on that day
    OK, I misuderstood. It appears Jeffrey also thought you were saying the LL had altered the agreement at some point after the commencement of the tenancy.

    No matter - the position is that even if there was a breach (by subletting), then by accepting rent without qualification* after becoming aware of the breach and even more so (or, to be flashy, a fortiori), by accepting rent from the 3rd person (the puported sub-lessee), the LL has waived the term which prohibits subletting.

    In any case, even if the court finds against you on that point what damage can the LL be said to have suffered by the subletting?



    * ie: if the LL, after having become aware of a breach of tenancy, wanted to reserve his rights in respect of that breach, he should have accepted the rent "without prejudice".

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by looking4info View Post
    I've heard the term 'Consideration' before where you are considered a tenant if there is a verbal agreement and if you pay rent etc... does anyone know about this?
    Yes. See "Contracts- basics" thread here: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ead.php?t=5470.

    Leave a comment:


  • oaktree
    replied
    Originally posted by looking4info View Post

    Note: The ammendment was made when we signed the contract, infront of us, we all signed it on that day
    That's what I read and understood your post to mean; the landlord is just stupid and doesn't realise - yet - that he is onto a loser with this one. He can hardly dismiss the 3rd tenant if he actually received rent from them; even if he doesn't accept them as a legal tenant he still has to account for the money he received as rent for the property.

    Leave a comment:


  • looking4info
    replied
    Yes you are right here ^^

    He is basically saying the we breached the contract by bringing in a third person (subletting), LL has pocketed their rent money and now wants this sum again from us as he is now dismissing the third person's rent money (if this makes sense).

    I didn't even realise before that the amendment to the contract (crossing out bits) would make it not a proper contract, I was just going to go by what I know about inventory lists and the TDS scheme. Also the fact that LL accepted the third persons rent, entered into communications with them and also issued the section 21 to them.

    I've heard the term 'Consideration' before where you are considered a tenant if there is a verbal agreement and if you pay rent etc... does anyone know about this?



    Note: The ammendment was made when we signed the contract, infront of us, we all signed it on that day
    Last edited by looking4info; 07-10-2008, 15:27 PM. Reason: --

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  • agent46
    replied
    Originally posted by oaktree View Post
    sorry, I can't see that any of those points would be relevant unless it could be proven that the landlord had altered the agreement with criminal intent in mind and that certainly doesn't seem the case here.

    .
    Well, as I stated in my post, OP will not be pleading criminal intent as part of their case. Secondly, the issue of proof would only arise if the civil case was referred to the Police/CPS.


    It seemed to me that OP was saying that the LL was claiming (amongst other things) that the property had been sublet in breach of covenant. My understanding from OP's posts was that the LL was seeking to prove this by producing an amended agreement which proved that subletting was not permitted and that the deletion/amendments were done by the LL, after the event, in attempt to prove that part of their counterclaim. If that is the case, then there is clearly an attempt to prejudice the interests of justice (which is the core of the offences I set out).

    Perhaps OP could clarify this issue, because it is not immediately apparent from their posts.

    Leave a comment:

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