Where is dividing line between poor quality and slum?

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    Where is dividing line between poor quality and slum?

    ... between providing low cost, shabby but generally acceptable accommodation and outright Rachmanism?

    As far as I know there is no objective standard set in law for what constitutes unreasonable, ongoing behaviour on the part of a landlord. Things are tackled on a case by case basis i.e. whether this roof hole was not repaired or that moth-eaten carpet not replaced for 'too long'.

    Isn't everything, when it comes down to it, down to the subjective judgement of a particular court on a particular day?

    BUT, see: http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/d...0.php#comments

    #2
    Isn't this a 'supply and demand' thing?

    As a prospective tenant many years ago I viewed a variety of properties, I turned down the ones I considered sub-standard. Properties that are well presented tend to also be well maintained. If it's poor to start with and you can't afford better then you should be able to guess what you are letting yourself in for, a sad situation but perhaps better than the cardboard box option.

    There are laws relating to landlord and tenant obligations.
    I also post as Moderator2 when moderating

    Comment


      #3
      Anyway, under English law, it's virtually impossible to legislate (in advance and objectively) for what this particular tenant will find problematic in this specific house. The best that can be done is to stipulate acceptable minimum standards requirements for certain necessary services: see s.11 of LTA 1985 (E&W only; Scottish law is different).
      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

      Comment


        #4
        There are minimum standards laid down in law, but this does not cover the quality of various things - only that they are present and safe. The items covered are a bare minimum actually.

        There are more stringent standards, in theory, with non-private housing, but as far as private landlords are concerned, for many its only really about making money, not providing a wonderful, pleasant home for total strangers.

        The only reason landlords make an effort to raise their standards and keep them high is because of the market that they are in.
        In the last 15-20 years, the quantity of rented accommodation has risen to a very high level and there is plenty of choice now for tenants. This keeps the standards higher than they would otherwise be.

        Comment


          #5
          The dividing line is the English/Scottish Borders!

          Imagine the kerfuffle if a landlord registration scheme is ever introduced in England/Wales which permits the local authority to serve a notice suspending the tenants’ rent payments or seek a criminal prosecution against an unregistered landlord?

          The landlord registration scheme in Scotland means that they can decree that a landlord is not a fit and proper and can't be registered. Landlords in Scotland can also be penalised for the anti-social behaviour of their tenants.

          The assessment of whether the landlord and their agents are 'fit and proper'[ for the purposes of private renting includes

          - offences committed by the landlord involving fraud, dishonesty, violence or drugs
          - unlawful discrimination with regard to sex, colour, race, ethnic or national origins or disability
          - contravention of any provision of the law relating to housing or landlord and tenant relations
          - evidence that a landlord has failed to take action in relation to antisocial behaviour affecting a house they let or manage
          - anything else that the local authority think is relevant when forming a view if someone is fit and proper.

          This is in contrast to England/Wales where landlords can be prosecuted for breaches of housing law but can continue to rent out their properties and aren't held to be responsible for the anti-social behaviour of their tenants.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Beeber View Post
            anything else that the local authority think is relevant when forming a view if someone is fit and proper.
            The mind boggles!

            Apart from the bit I've quoted, it does not sound unreasonable to me. But does it result in a much better stock of rental properties than in England and Wales?
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Beeber View Post
              Landlords in Scotland can also be penalised for the anti-social behaviour of their tenants.
              Originally posted by Beeber View Post
              - evidence that a landlord has failed to take action in relation to antisocial behaviour affecting a house they let or manage
              Who is defining what's anti-social?

              What's next?

              Do the tenants eat Pot Noodle too late at night?
              Do the tenants eat foods too high in fat or sugar?
              With whom do the tenants have friendly/intimate relations & when?
              Do the tenants watch reruns of Noel's House Party & It's a Knock-out?
              Do the tenants still have vinyl records?


              Originally posted by Beeber View Post
              - anything else that the local authority think is relevant when forming a view if someone is fit and proper.
              and then this piece of subjective hooey!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                The mind boggles!

                Apart from the bit I've quoted, it does not sound unreasonable to me. But does it result in a much better stock of rental properties than in England and Wales?
                Hard to say but Scotland does have the ultimate sanction of dealing with rogue/slum/criminal landlords, however you wish to term landlords that don't comply with their legal and health/safety obligations.

                The example given means that Glasgow council have just taken out of circulation a landlord's entire portfolioafter his failure to comply with health and safety requests and who rented a flat where a cooker was installed next to a toilet whereas he would be free to continue if the properties were based in the south.

                The effect might inspire other complacent landlords to comply with legislation.

                The reason why the national landlord register is probably more effective a stick than the HMO licencing scheme is that the fines for non-compliance of the HMO legislation are so low that they did not act as a deterrant. Landlords continued to ignore court orders.

                They learned the lesson from this so the canny approach for the landlord registration scheme means that the landlord's income is affected as source through the issuing of Rent Penalty Notices that instruct the tenant to stop paying rent.

                Comment


                  #9
                  See my prescient thread http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=12909.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                    Bravo.

                    I personally feel it is only a matter of time before the Scottish model is taken south of the border.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jolanta Nowak View Post
                      Bravo.

                      I personally feel it is only a matter of time before the Scottish model is taken south of the border.
                      Who is this Scottish model and what does she look like? Maybe we'd all be interested in going south with her...
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                        Who is this Scottish model and what does she look like? Maybe we'd all be interested in going south with her...
                        It's Kilt and Sporran Barbie. You'd love her!
                        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                          It's Kilt and Sporran Barbie. You'd love her!
                          Prefer Elle McPherson (obv. another Scot). Or Cameron Diaz, for that matter.
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            Prefer Elle McPherson (obv. another Scot). Or Cameron Diaz, for that matter.
                            You can't fool me
                            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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