Tenant's notice based on rent due date or AST start date?

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    Tenant's notice based on rent due date or AST start date?

    Hi

    I'm a tenant.

    I had a 6 month AST that started on the 28th of a month. It is now a statutory periodic tenancy.

    I pay rent on the first of the month (as specified in my AST).

    When I give one months notice to leave, should my last day be 27th of a month or the last day of a month? i.e. do I go by the AST start date or rent due day?

    Thanks

    #2
    Originally posted by Tenantzone View Post
    I had a 6 month AST that started on the 28th of a month. It is now a statutory periodic tenancy.

    I pay rent on the first of the month (as specified in my AST).

    When I give one months notice to leave, should my last day be 27th of a month or the last day of a month? i.e. do I go by the AST start date or rent due day?
    1. Assume commencement on 28 January (so expiry on 27 July).
    2. First statutory periodic tenancy (SPT) period begins on 28 July (then on 28 August etc.) Rent payment day is irrelevant for this purpose. However, rent payment frequency means that the SPT is monthly too.
    3. If you want to leave, best practice is:
    a. tell L at least a month before due date; and
    b. set due date to coincide with month end. Notice given today (9 Sept.)- or on any day before 27 Sept.- should take you to 27 Oct.
    4. If no rent arrears b/f, final rent payment will be on 1 Oct. for 27/365 of full year's rent at current rate. Do not apportion on monthly rate.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
      1. Assume commencement on 28 January (so expiry on 27 July).
      2. First statutory periodic tenancy (SPT) period begins on 28 July (then on 28 August etc.) Rent payment day is irrelevant for this purpose. However, rent payment frequency means that the SPT is monthly too.
      3. If you want to leave, best practice is:
      a. tell L at least a month before due date; and
      b. set due date to coincide with month end. Notice given today (9 Sept.)- or on any day before 27 Sept.- should take you to 27 Oct.
      4. If no rent arrears b/f, final rent payment will be on 1 Oct. for 27/365 of full year's rent at current rate. Do not apportion on monthly rate.
      Brilliant, thanks

      One other question...

      I paid 4 days rent in order to move rent day from 28th to 1st because it was done in a month with 31 days.

      What's the correct amount to deduct from the last months rent if I'm leaving on the 27th? Does the amount I deduct depend on whether I leave in a short or long month? To add to the confusion, 4 days rent at the time was different to 4 days rent now due to rent increases. I don't mind paying what I owe, but don't want to be ripped off. What's normally done in these circumstances?

      Comment


        #4
        Your "first four days" rent was used-up at that time. That's why your final rent payment will cover a month LESS four days, in effect.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
          Your "first four days" rent was used-up at that time. That's why your final rent payment will cover a month LESS four days, in effect.
          Huh? So you are saying I deduct nothing? That can't be right.

          If I moved in on the 28th and move out on the 27th then I should pay a whole number of months rent. If I don't deduct 4 days rent from the last payment then I will have paid a whole number of months rent, plus 4 days.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            4. If no rent arrears b/f, final rent payment will be on 1 Oct. for 27/365 of full year's rent at current rate. Do not apportion on monthly rate.
            Oh, I missed that. That makes sense now Thanks

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
              for 27/365 of full year's rent at current rate. Do not apportion on monthly rate.
              What does this mean Jeffrey?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by SEB View Post
                What does this mean Jeffrey?
                Rent may need apportioning either:
                a. at start (e.g. term starts part-way through a rent payment period);
                b. when amount per period changes during a rent payment period; or
                c. at end (e.g. term ends part-way through a rent payment period).

                Apportionment should be related to a FULL YEAR'S rent (no matter how long or short the term is, and irrespective of payment dates/frequency). By s.2 of Apportionment Act 1870 [yes, really], "All rents...(whether reserved...under an instrument in writing or otherwise) shall...be considered as accruing from day to day, and shall be apportionable in respect of time accordingly."

                However, s.7 states that the Act is subject to any express stipulation that no apportionment shall take place.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi

                  Sorry, one more question (I want to make sure I get this right...)

                  If my tenancy started on the 28th do I need to move out on the 27th or the 28th? Landlordzone and Shelter both seem to give quite confusing advice about this:

                  Landlordzone:
                  The notice period must end at the end of a tenancy payment period: for example, if the rent payment date is on the 20th of each month, the notice period must end on the 20th of the month or the 19th to be on the safe side.
                  Shelter:
                  The notice should end on the first or last day of the period of a tenancy.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think they are saying there is some latitude but strictly speaking your tenancy ends on 27th
                    The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The notice period must end at the end of a tenancy payment period: for example, if the rent payment date is on the 20th of each month, the notice period must end on the 20th of the month or the 19th to be on the safe side.
                      This is confused. The end or beginning of a tenancy period may not coincide with a rent payment date. Forget the rent payment date.

                      The notice should end on the first or last day of the period of a tenancy.
                      Correct for a common law notice.

                      Comment

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