AST- tenant refusing to leave!

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    AST- tenant refusing to leave!

    Hi, I've a little complicated situation developing.( Why do they always happen at the weekend?) From the beginning, I have a tenant who despite me requesting on numerous occassions to send me back a copy of the sigend AST, has not done so. So, I assumed that the old agreement would be in place on a month to month basis, and thereby gave her 4 weeks notice of repossession of the property. Se went to the council and they have told her, because they she has a signed copy of the AST, I have to give her 8 weeks, which will cause me a little inconvenience, but I'm willing to do. However, she is adopting the stance that she has no where else to go, so she is staying put. I've been advise by an letting agent to serve her a repossession notice to cover the 8 weeks and then go for a fast track 118 at the end of the term when she fails to leave. What is the situation with tenants refusing to ove out. Surely, they cant stay in the property indefinitely?

    I will take legal advise on Monday, but could anyone throw any light on this. She is on benefits, but wasnt originally. Oh how I wish I hadnt given on to her tearfull bleeding!!

    cheers
    Ian

    #2
    Originally posted by Barch View Post

    I will take legal advise on Monday, but could anyone throw any light on this. She is on benefits, but wasnt originally. Oh how I wish I hadnt given on to her tearfull bleeding!!

    cheers
    Ian
    Hope she didn't bleed all over your carpets!
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Barch View Post
      Hi, I've a little complicated situation developing.( Why do they always happen at the weekend?) From the beginning, I have a tenant who despite me requesting on numerous occassions to send me back a copy of the sigend AST, has not done so. So, I assumed that the old agreement would be in place on a month to month basis, and thereby gave her 4 weeks notice of repossession of the property. Se went to the council and they have told her, because they she has a signed copy of the AST, I have to give her 8 weeks, which will cause me a little inconvenience, but I'm willing to do. However, she is adopting the stance that she has no where else to go, so she is staying put. I've been advise by an letting agent to serve her a repossession notice to cover the 8 weeks and then go for a fast track 118 at the end of the term when she fails to leave. What is the situation with tenants refusing to ove out. Surely, they cant stay in the property indefinitely?

      I will take legal advise on Monday, but could anyone throw any light on this. She is on benefits, but wasnt originally. Oh how I wish I hadnt given on to her tearfull bleeding!!

      cheers
      Ian
      You need to be more specific, when did the AST begin? how long is the AST (6MONTHS OR a year?) what the hell is your agent on about?, never heard of a 118 fastrack procedure.

      Where did you protect her deposit?, have you notidied her where it is?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
        Hope she didn't bleed all over your carpets!

        Not a problem if he has an inventory

        Comment


          #5
          Your tenant won't leave until you've served the proper notice and gained possession through a court order. See the info here

          http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/Possession.htm

          When a tenancy becomes periodic, a landlord must give 2 months' notice, (when rent is paid monthly) or 4 weeks' notice (28 days) when the rent is paid weekly.

          The reason she won't budge is that she's probably angling for social housing and the council housing department will have told her that she'll be deemed to have made herself intentionally homeless (and thus ineligible for housing by them) if she moves out ahead of the landlord gaining possession through a court order.

          Have a look at the information on the Shelter website about local authority assistance for homeless applicants and eviction as though its written as a guide for tenants, it's informative for landlords to see what rights the tenants have and how the council will assess her application.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by porridge View Post
            You need to be more specific, when did the AST begin? how long is the AST (6MONTHS OR a year?) what the hell is your agent on about?, never heard of a 118 fastrack procedure.

            Where did you protect her deposit?, have you notidied her where it is?
            Hi, Sorry, AST started on the 22nd April 2008, for six months. Not sure about the fast track thing, he is the agent for another property we are renting out. I protected her deposit with the deposit protection service, and yes, she knows this. Hope that helps.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Barch View Post
              Hi, Sorry, AST started on the 22nd April 2008, for six months. Not sure about the fast track thing, he is the agent for another property we are renting out. I protected her deposit with the deposit protection service, and yes, she knows this. Hope that helps.
              So tenancy doesn't end until 21st Oct, ok did you serve the S21 (b) stating that require possession AFTER 21st oct ?, when was it served?, how was it served? and can you proof it was served?

              Has your tenant got a case?, have you dealt with the problem?, how much is the monthly rent?

              Please provide as many details as you can

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Beeber View Post
                When a tenancy becomes periodic, a landlord must give 2 months' notice, (when rent is paid monthly) or 4 weeks' notice (28 days) when the rent is paid weekly.
                The minimum period is always two months.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by porridge View Post
                  So tenancy doesn't end until 21st Oct, ok did you serve the S21 (b) stating that require possession AFTER 21st oct ?, when was it served?, how was it served? and can you proof it was served?

                  Has your tenant got a case?, have you dealt with the problem?, how much is the monthly rent?

                  Please provide as many details as you can
                  Hi Porridge

                  I cant prove the notice has been served. I intend dropping a copy of the notice to her tomorrow. I doubt she'll sign receipt of it, but I'll try. I have previously served her 4 weeks notice as I thought that was the legal requirement. But, from tomorrow she'll have eight weeks. She pays, £825/month. Never had an issue with payment, we want to take possession so we can sell the property., it needs work and we cant do that when someone else is living there.

                  Has she got a case? Not sure. Dealt with the problem? I didnt know I or she had one!

                  She was a joint tenant with a partner who left her. She was in tears on the phone asking me to allow her to stay so I started a new AST in April in her name. As stated earlier, despite repeated attempts to get a copy, she has not sent it. I've asked her today agin as she sent a text stating, "I have sought professional advice and the signed tenancy agreement requires you to give me 2 months written notice. I look forward to receiving this from you asap. Thank you". So she is refering to the document from the 22nd April. As I understand it, I can serve 2 months notice at any time during the six months. This will be done tomorrow.

                  Its the attitude that, "i've no where to go, so I' staying put" that I'm having trouble with. She seems to think that she can indeed astay there indefinitely!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Barch View Post
                    Hi Porridge

                    I cant prove the notice has been served. I intend dropping a copy of the notice to her tomorrow. I doubt she'll sign receipt of it, but I'll try. I have previously served her 4 weeks notice as I thought that was the legal requirement. But, from tomorrow she'll have eight weeks. She pays, £825/month. Never had an issue with payment, we want to take possession so we can sell the property., it needs work and we cant do that when someone else is living there.

                    Has she got a case? Not sure. Dealt with the problem? I didnt know I or she had one!

                    She was a joint tenant with a partner who left her. She was in tears on the phone asking me to allow her to stay so I started a new AST in April in her name. As stated earlier, despite repeated attempts to get a copy, she has not sent it. I've asked her today agin as she sent a text stating, "I have sought professional advice and the signed tenancy agreement requires you to give me 2 months written notice. I look forward to receiving this from you asap. Thank you". So she is refering to the document from the 22nd April. As I understand it, I can serve 2 months notice at any time during the six months. This will be done tomorrow.

                    Its the attitude that, "i've no where to go, so I' staying put" that I'm having trouble with. She seems to think that she can indeed astay there indefinitely!!
                    Barch

                    STOP !, don't do anything yet, no offence intended, but you're making a complete hash of all this and you seem to be digging yourself in a deep hole.

                    Take my advice, join the RLA tonight, phone then on Monday phone their helpdesk- DO IT !

                    You need to serve a Section 21, do this by dropping the notice through the letterbox, have someone witness you doing this ! (you will need to complete a certificate of service) I also reccomend you send a copy by recorded delivery. allow at least 2 days for the notice to have been considered as served, eg drop letter through letterbox on Monday 8th, date the notice as requiring possession after the 11th November.

                    Re her attitude, take a step back and realise that there is a process that you now need to go through, it will take time, but you need to be beyond reproach, be carfeful not to have harrasment allegations made against you !

                    This notice you have previously sent and the ine you intend to send, does it actually say "Section 21 (b) on it?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by porridge View Post
                      Barch

                      STOP !, don't do anything yet, no offence intended, but you're making a complete hash of all this and you seem to be digging yourself in a deep hole.

                      Take my advice, join the RLA tonight, phone then on Monday phone their helpdesk- DO IT !

                      You need to serve a Section 21, do this by dropping the notice through the letterbox, have someone witness you doing this ! (you will need to complete a certificate of service) I also reccommend you send a copy by recorded delivery. allow at least 2 days for the notice to have been considered as served, eg drop letter through letterbox on Monday 8th, date the notice as requiring possession after the 11th November.

                      Re her attitude, take a step back and realise that there is a process that you now need to go through, it will take time, but you need to be beyond reproach, be carfeful not to have harrasment allegations made against you !

                      This notice you have previously sent and the ine you intend to send, does it actually say "Section 21 (b) on it?
                      No offence taken!!. The 4 week notice did mention Section 21. The 8 week one certainly does, I'm pretty sure its what is required. If I send it recorded, then she has to be in to receive it and I cant guarantee that she will be or that she will go and get it from the collection office. I thought if I drop it in to her, she will, and I will know she has it.

                      I have replied to her text asking for "a signed copy of the AST to be sent to me and that I would help her find another home but that ultimately i will do all i can legally to get my house back. Repossession notice giving you 8 weeks will be with you tomorrow". I've then recommended she speak to a agent who I know deals with tenants on benefits and given there number.

                      I was so angry today and told her so. As you would expect. I thought the tone of the text highlighted above showed her I was willing to help, not harrassing. I've joined the RLA and will send the a copy of the Notice Requiring Possession: Fixed Term Tenancy document that she will have a copy of tomorrow. I have not issue with this process taking the 8 weeks and beyond. If she is looking to get herself evicted so that the council will house her, then I guess we need to go thru the process. If someone else is advising her that she can stay there and theat she should contest the eviction, then, this could drag on and on, I guess.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Barch View Post
                        No offence taken!!. The 4 week notice did mention Section 21. The 8 week one certainly does, I'm pretty sure its what is required. If I send it recorded, then she has to be in to receive it and I cant guarantee that she will be or that she will go and get it from the collection office. I thought if I drop it in to her, she will, and I will know she has it.

                        I have replied to her text asking for "a signed copy of the AST to be sent to me and that I would help her find another home but that ultimately i will do all i can legally to get my house back. Repossession notice giving you 8 weeks will be with you tomorrow". I've then recommended she speak to a agent who I know deals with tenants on benefits and given there number.

                        I was so angry today and told her so. As you would expect. I thought the tone of the text highlighted above showed her I was willing to help, not harrassing. I've joined the RLA and will send the a copy of the Notice Requiring Possession: Fixed Term Tenancy document that she will have a copy of tomorrow. I have not issue with this process taking the 8 weeks and beyond. If she is looking to get herself evicted so that the council will house her, then I guess we need to go thru the process. If someone else is advising her that she can stay there and theat she should contest the eviction, then, this could drag on and on, I guess.
                        OK, so you've joined the RLA, give Dave a call on the helpdesk on monday (0845 666-5000) talk it through with home

                        Handing it to your tenant is fine, but you still need a witness !, or its your word against hers and judges will always favour the tenant if there is ever any doubt, if you serve the notice in her hand then the notice will be deemed as being served that day.

                        You say you were angry and you told her so- not a good idea, you've got to keep it together and behave beyond reproach, harrasment is a criminal offence.

                        If you've already served a S21 notice, then why are you serving another one tomorrow?.

                        good luck

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Serving 21 again

                          Hi Porridge, thanks for your help thus far.

                          I'm serving her the notice tomorrow because the first one is invalid. It only gives four weeks. So the one for tomorrow is bullet proof!!

                          I've sent a text to a friend requesting they meet at the flat tomorrow to witness the exchange. He will either see me hand over the envelope to her directly, or post it through her door. Either way, I have dated the document accordingly. Either 8 weeks from tomorrow if its in her hand, or 8 weeks from Monday if I have to drop it through the letterbox.

                          I know I shouldnt have lost it, but when you are told that your tenant, depite bending over backwards to accomodate her is going to stay in your property, when my partner has handed her notice in at work to move up to Watford (we are in Poole) so that we can get the property in a saleable state, its not surprising I lost it! I will be the absolute gentleman from now. Once she has the document tomorrow, I will not be contacting her again.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Many notices are not bullet proof and often fail when they reach court because the landlord has entered the wrong dates on them. Make sure yours is checked before you re-issue it. You can see from the following link that their completion, how to calculate the notice period, can be complex.

                            http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-fac...d-tenancy.html

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Beeber View Post
                              Many notices are not bullet proof and often fail when they reach court because the landlord has entered the wrong dates on them. Make sure yours is checked before you re-issue it. You can see from the following link that their completion, how to calculate the notice period, can be complex.

                              http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-fac...d-tenancy.html
                              thanks Beeber

                              Here is the letter she will recieve today.

                              HOUSING ACT 1988
                              Section 21 (1)(b)

                              Assured Shorthold Tenancy : Notice Requiring Possession:
                              Fixed Term Tenancy

                              To
                              Her full name


                              Of
                              (the addresso f the flat requiring possession)

                              From
                              My full name and address


                              I give you notice under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 that I require possession of the dwelling house known as

                              (Again house address requiring possession

                              On 3/11/2009 (Note 3 Below)

                              (This date being 8 weeks shead of today)

                              Signed Dated



                              NOTES
                              1 At the end of a fixed term of an assured shorthold tenancy, a court is obliged to make an order for possession if the landlord has correctly served a notice in this form.
                              2 Where there are joint landlords, at least one of them must serve this notice if the tenancy is to be ended at or after the fixed term has expired.
                              3 The length of the notice must be at least two months and the notice may be given before or on the day on which the fixed term comes to an end.


                              INFORMATION FOR TENANT

                              If the tenant or licensee does not leave the dwelling, the landlord or licensor must get an order for possession from the court before the tenant or licensee can lawfully be evicted. The landlord or licensor cannot apply for such an order before the notice to quit or notice to determine has run out.

                              A tenant or licensee who does not know if he or she has any right to remain in possession after a notice to quit or notice to determine runs out can obtain advice from a solicitor. Help with all or part of the cost of legal advice and assistance may be available under the Legal Aid Scheme. He should also be able to obtain information from a Citizens Advice Bureau, a Housing Aid Centre or a rent officer

                              Hows that?

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