"Missing" rent payment- tenants blame bank

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    "Missing" rent payment- tenants blame bank

    My tenant missed 1 months payment, when i realised this i contacted the tenant who sent back an agressive email saying i should have let her know sooner that the payment was missing.

    She went onto say that they had paid in cash - although they had previously transferred the money - and that the payment slip had gone missing as it had taken me so long to let them know. I noticed it and let them know within a few weeks from the due date.

    They said that the onus was on me to let them know quickly if a payment was missing and they wanted to see proof of my bank account details. I sent all the relevent statement photocopies but excluded some information for security but the statements showed the payments made etc for each month.

    The tenant is now saying that the statements could be for any account as there are details missing. Does anyone have any suggestions, can I ask to see their statement that proves a cash withdrawal was made on the date they say? They say they are trying to sort it out with the bank every time I speak with them but it has dragged on for a couple of month's now.

    I am being very reasonable with them and have asked them to suggest a payment plan for the missing rent - but they wont even entertain my suggestions and say I need to give them more evidence.

    Thanks Park.

    #2
    The onus is on them to prove they have paid it, not for you to prove they have not.

    Be firm, advise that payment is required or further action will be taken.

    Comment


      #3
      The first thing to do is also check the TA and what it says about rent.

      Eliminate any extra rights they may have been given in the contract before getting stronger with them.

      As they are adamant they have paid it, they can redeem the situation, but they will need to get off their backside. They need to go back to the bank giving date and time of the transaction, and the amount concerned. The bank will then do a trace to see where it has ended up.
      On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Because of the number of posts I have done, I am now a Senior Member. However, read anything I write with the above in mind.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks colin and esio

        Thanks for your reply - I will try this and see what happens- I basically took pity on the tenants like a fool as they had a young baby and nowhere to live and didnt do all the proper checks - being nice never works.

        The tenants said they needed to move in quick and they would give me details of their previous LL and proof of identity after they had moved in - but as you can imagine these things never materialized. Is there anyway that I can now get them to give me this information?

        Cheers Park.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by markyparky View Post
          Thanks for your reply - I will try this and see what happens- I basically took pity on the tenants like a fool as they had a young baby and nowhere to live and didnt do all the proper checks - being nice never works.

          The tenants said they needed to move in quick and they would give me details of their previous LL and proof of identity after they had moved in - but as you can imagine these things never materialized. Is there anyway that I can now get them to give me this information?

          Cheers Park.
          Unless you have some weird clause in your AST I think you will struggle to get this information of them. Since it appears you have very little information on them, I would be collating information as quickly as possible incase they suddenly do disappear and you need to trace them.

          Some good advice above, get them to prove how and when they paid the money. If they did pay then this won't be a problem. Until this I would consider them in a months of arrears and would be wanting to get rid of them ASAP!

          Whilst the onus isn't on you to check your bank accounts, it would make sense to, which I am sure you have realised now! Obviously it is my job but I reconcile our bank statements every day so that chasing can be made immediately. Naturally sometimes there are delays on S/O's but our bank can tell us if they are on their way or not. It allows us to shut down problems very quickly.

          If you only have a few properties then you should be able to do this manually, if you have lots them maybe time to invest in some management software or dare I say it, a LA!

          Hope it all works out for you.

          Kind regards,

          John

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by markyparky View Post
            The tenants said they needed to move in quick and they would give me details of their previous LL and proof of identity after they had moved in - but as you can imagine these things never materialized. Is there anyway that I can now get them to give me this information?
            I think you will be onto a loser trying to get information from them now.

            Like many a landlord before you, you saw what you perceived to be a desperate situation and you made an understandable emotional response. Sadly, as you have found, tenants in this situation know how to pull the right strings and may well have done this on previous occasions to others. I bet you won't be taken in like this again !

            Looks like you will need to work on the assumption that this tenancy is going to go pear-shaped. Prepare for each potential event before it happens:
            1. Look at the TA to see the day the rent is due (usually the first day of each monthly period).
            2. If this was, say, 10 May when they moved in, then the missing rent would have been due on 10 June. If no rent is forthcoming by the morning of 11 July, serve a s8 Notice (prepare this a day or so before hand so it is ready to serve). Do this by hand (before 5pm if a week day) preferably by somebody else and complete a N215 Certificate of Service (downloaded from HMCS website).

            You need to do everything on the first day you are able. Each day you leave it will cost you an extra day's rent.

            Give us the dates of the tenancy agreement, and the exact wording from the TA of how the rent is payable e.g. "Rent of £500 per month, payable monthly in advance". We can then do the calculations of the dates to be used.
            On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Because of the number of posts I have done, I am now a Senior Member. However, read anything I write with the above in mind.

            Comment


              #7
              ast wording and date.

              Hi there -thanks for this, I appreciate it.

              the rental is due on the third day of each month. The AST says payment monthly in advance by equal monthly payments on the 3rd of each month.

              The tenant is in arrears by a month which the tenant has said is just a missing payment and is making no attempt to pay it. I have a gut feeling that the tenant will not be paying this month either as the payment was due on the 3rd and has not been paid to date, and they won't respond to emails.

              I was going to serve a section 21 but now think that I am better to wait until they are two months in arrears which is only 3 weeks away and to serve a section 8 instead as i will now have to wait to serve a section 21 as i missed the due date to send it - do you think this is the best course of action?

              I have been really kind to this couple and find it hard to believe how they are behaving, sometimes peoples nature gets me down - I got this guy some work and my wife gave his children bags full of our kids second hand clothes!!

              anyway you live and learn - but unfortunately you start to become wary of people.

              All the best Mark.

              Comment


                #8
                You do not have to wait another 3 weeks in order to serve your S.8 G.8 notice.
                The housing act states that two months rent must be UNPAID, not two months in arrears. Hence you could serve the S.8 after 1 month and 1 day.

                Comment


                  #9
                  If you are missing two monthly payments, then you are two months in arrears. You do not need to wait until the end of the second missing month to take arrears action.

                  For example

                  Rent due 3 June - unpaid
                  Rent due 3 July - unpaid
                  4 July two months in arrears

                  Please also specify the following so that members can give you more pointers:
                  1. The commencement date of the tenancy agreement
                  2. The term
                  3. Did you take a deposit, if so is it protected in a scheme

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Don't forget hat you can serve an S21 and an S8 at the same time. They have no effect on each other. If the tenant subsequently subverts the s8 action by bring the arrears down to below 2 months on the court steps, then at least the required S21 notice period is running and this can be eventually used to obtain the necessary possession order.

                    P.P.
                    Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      thanks for advice

                      Thanks for all the help guys - I have decided to use a solicitor to serve notice and to get them out of the property and for me unfortunately no more Mr nice guy with anyone in the future.

                      I am going to pursue these scumbags for any debts to the bitter end as I have decided that the way they have behaved is the lowest of low especially given all the help I had given to them.

                      I think I will be out of pocket for around £2500 at best at the end of it all - I have the work address for the tenant and wondered if any on knew how complicated it is to get an attachment of earnings as the tenant is on fairly good money.

                      Cheers.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Make sure you use a solicitor who specialises in property rather than a generalist! There's a thread on here at the moment from somebody whose solicitor screwed up the notices resulting in delay.

                        Although if I were a landlord in your situation, I would be very tempted to do the legwork myself.

                        Comment

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