Violence between co-tenants; what rent due if 1 leaves?

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    Originally posted by MrShed
    Curiouser and curiouser! Energise have you read the next question on that link? She actually contradicts herself:

    Hopefully daza can clarify if he gets a response


      Originally posted by MrShed
      For an out and out lodger, I do not believe this applies anyway(she states the "tenancy" and obviously a standard lodger has no tenancy). However, certain circumstances can allow a resident landlord of a TENANT, and presumably issues such as the one mentioned by Richie can also crop up. The question is here whether the OP's girlfriend is actually purely and simply a lodger, or whether she is more than that due to the basic agreement signed - obviously I believed she was just a lodger, but Richie's post has made me reconsider.

      Jack, could you tell us the exact wording of this agreement she signed?
      Hi MrShed. As requested, quoted below is the full text of the agreement. Don't tell me it is pretty crummy and I am learning that more and more! I should say that my girlfriend (I guess that needs to be "ex-girlfriend") will probably send someone to collect her things so the actual legal interpretation of her status may soon be academic. However it is a real life situation and therefore it may warrant attention from those here with a specialist interest and who like to wrestle with a puzzle until it yields! (If you see what I mean).

      The agreement says one thing about payments and their period. In practise we made the real-world situation different. For convenience I will repeat what I posted before: she paid me fortnightly a few days before the fortnight expired. So she effectively paid in arrears. The next period is Mon 31 Oct to Sun 13 Nov. There is no security deposit.

      Here is the agreement:

      This is to make clear the payments and conditions of rental for {address}.

      The period of rent starts from {date} and the rent is £x per week to be paid in advance every four weeks. Interest may be charged on late payments. The security deposit is four weeks rent and will be returned in full if the flat is vacated in good order. It will be used to pay for any damage, cleaning, outstanding accounts and replacement keys/locks beyond normal wear and tear.

      The rent includes furnishings (see inventory), garage, and buildings insurance.

      The rent does not include water, gas, electric, phone, council tax, and contents insurance.

      Your obligation is to keep the property in good order and to use the property for residential purposes only and not to cause nuisance or annoyance to others. No pets may be kept.

      The rental is for sharing a flat with one other.

      Any overnight guests must be agreed in advance.

      Please note that this is intended to create an Assured Shorthold tenancy as defined in section 20 of the Housing Act 1988. This means that the provisions for the recovery of possession by the landlord contained in section 21 of the Act (as amended by Section 99 of the Housing Act 1960) apply.
      And in my defence for such a brief agreement, I will remind any vocal critics that it was between two people who were partners. :-)



        Ive recieved a e-mail from Marveen

        "It depends upon the relationship. In theory a lodger can be thrown out but it
        would be very difficult legally and a resident landlord where a preoperty is
        converted must give Notice to Quit which isd the time scale the article stated."



          Originally posted by dazalock
          Ive recieved a e-mail from Marveen

          "It depends upon the relationship. In theory a lodger can be thrown out but it
          would be very difficult legally and a resident landlord where a preoperty is
          converted must give Notice to Quit which isd the time scale the article stated."


          That's sorted then


            Where's Daytona when you need him to come charging on his high horse?


              I heard said horse was at a chiropractor due to heavy weights from Daytona's massive ego
              Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.


                I think the answer is simple.....sort of.

                Only a court can decide. The fact that one shares facilities with a landlord does not of itself preclude a tenancy, The main difference between a licence and a tenancy is “exclusive possession” of at least one room. A tenancy entitles a tenant “exclusive possession” a licence gives them permission from the landlord to occupy it.

                If the girl can argue that she had her own bedroom for example and the court looks at the agreement that was made they may well conclude that she is a tenant with an AST.

                Given that this is supremely messy I would suggest that whilst looking at the written agreement, which on the surface is an AST, they would also consider what the intentions of the parties were when the agreement was made. They may well accept that this couple had no idea that they were creating a tenancy, as against a licence, but equally they might conclude that this was intended to ensure the girlfriend enjoyed the same security as the boyfriend who was already a tenant.

                Best to let her have her stuff back, let her parents collect it, be nice, forget the money, and learn a lesson. Going to court is not in your interests.
                NOTE: Steven Palmer BSc (Hons) MRICS MBEng is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert and a Director of Davisons Palmer Lim Any advice given by Steven in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be acted upon without first obtaining advice specific to your problem/situation from a professional.


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