S21 served during replacement tenancy

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    #16
    Originally posted by DoricPixie View Post
    If on the other hand a Section 8 using ground 1 had been served instead he might have been successful if it went to court for a possession order.
    Originally posted by ash72 View Post
    The S8 on grounds 1 can be served, it is a mandatory ground, but you have a strong defence in that only 1 week after being provided with a new fixed term contract the LL decided that they were returning back. It would be on the judge's discretion to give possession.


    "The court shall not make an order for possession of a dwelling-house to take effect at a time when it is let on an assured fixed term tenancy unless" [a bunch of grounds that DOES NOT include ground 1].
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

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      #17
      Originally posted by KTC View Post





      "The court shall not make an order for possession of a dwelling-house to take effect at a time when it is let on an assured fixed term tenancy unless" [a bunch of grounds that DOES NOT include ground 1].
      Excellent point well made.

      Comment


        #18
        Jpkeates:

        Could the OP please quote the break clause? I don't think that the s21 notice is valid as a s21 notice, but it might trigger the break clause.
        "Any time after 4 months of the initial fixed term of the tenancy (or after a similar period following a fixed term extension to the original tenancy) either party may invoke the break clause by providing a minimum of two months written notice to the other (such notice to expire on the last day of a rental period of the tenancy). At the end of such notice the tenancy shall end and all obligations and responsibilities shall cease. Subject nevertheless to any claim by either party against the other in respect of any breach of any of the terms and conditions of the agreement."

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          #19
          Could anyone advise please what I, as a recipient of an invalid s21, should further do in such situation?
          The law doesn't seem to be on tenants side as we can't even be officially reimbursed for the harm done and any costs coming from this unexpected eviction

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Andyhambwa View Post
            Could anyone advise please what I, as a recipient of an invalid s21, should further do in such situation?
            The law doesn't seem to be on tenants side as we can't even be officially reimbursed for the harm done and any costs coming from this unexpected eviction
            The law is completely on your side in this matter. You don't need to do anything although you can if you wish inform the landlord the notice is not valid. Should the landlord go as far as court you simply point out you have a fixed term contract and the notice is invalid.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Andyhambwa View Post
              "Any time after 4 months of the initial fixed term of the tenancy (or after a similar period following a fixed term extension to the original tenancy) either party may invoke the break clause by providing a minimum of two months written notice to the other (such notice to expire on the last day of a rental period of the tenancy). At the end of such notice the tenancy shall end and all obligations and responsibilities shall cease. Subject nevertheless to any claim by either party against the other in respect of any breach of any of the terms and conditions of the agreement."
              Break clauses are tricky - because often whether or not something is valid comes down to the interpretation of fairly ambiguous clauses.

              But my reading of that is that the section 21 notice that you have been sent can't constitute a break notice.
              The risk was that while the notice might be invalid under s21 itself, the wording might have satisfied the break clause anyway.
              But the notice has to expire on the last day of a rental period and can't be invoked at all until four months of the new fixed term tenancy have elapsed, which hasn't happened yet (assuming I've understood the situation correctly).

              Once four months have elapsed, the landlord can invoke the break clause, and then serve a section 21 notice to expire once it's ended.

              Could anyone advise please what I, as a recipient of an invalid s21, should further do in such situation?
              The law doesn't seem to be on tenants side as we can't even be officially reimbursed for the harm done and any costs coming from this unexpected eviction
              What harm done?

              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #22
                But the notice has to expire on the last day of a rental period and can't be invoked at all until four months of the new fixed term tenancy have elapsed, which hasn't happened yet
                Does this also apply in the case of a Replacement tenancy, please? I have seen some contradicting messages on the Internet where it was written that the "clocks don't reset in the case of a replacement tenancy" and s21 can be served sooner.

                Comment


                  #23
                  You are confusing the requirements for a valid section 21 notice required under legislation, and break notice in accordance with the terms of your tenancy agreement.
                  I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                  I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Andyhambwa View Post
                    Does this also apply in the case of a Replacement tenancy, please? I have seen some contradicting messages on the Internet where it was written that the "clocks don't reset in the case of a replacement tenancy" and s21 can be served sooner.
                    That is correct for the requirement that limits how early in a tenancy a section 21 notice can be served.
                    But that's not why the section 21 is not valid here.

                    And it doesn't apply to notice to end the tenancy under your break clause, because the wording specifically says that it doesn't.



                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Thank you

                      I have one more question regarding the matter of a replacement tenancy.

                      On the form 6A I received it is written:

                      "There are certain circumstances in which the law says that you cannot seek possession against your tenant using section 21 of the Housing Act 1988, in which case you should not use this form. These are:
                      - during the first four months of the tenancy (but where the tenancy is a replacement tenancy, the four month period is calculated by reference to the start of the original tenancy and not the start of the replacement tenancy – see section 21(4B) of the Housing Act 1988)"

                      Doesn't the above mean that the served s21 is valid?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Andyhambwa View Post
                        Doesn't the above mean that the served s21 is valid?
                        There are any number of reasons why a section 21 notice may not be valid.
                        The one quoted is one such reason, and, you are correct, it doesn't invalidate your particular notice.

                        But, because a notice can be invalid for lots of reasons, not being invalid for one reason only doesn't make it valid.
                        It just means it's not invalid for that reason.

                        A section 21 notice can't expire during the fixed term of a tenancy.
                        You have just signed a new 12 month tenancy and the notice you have received expires before the end of the 12 month fixed term,
                        so it's invalid for that reason.

                        The earliest that the landlord would be able to make a possession claim (provided you continue paying rent and don't do anything completely mad) is to wait until four months have elapsed, and serve valid notice to execute the break clause, and serve a section 21 notice at the same time to take effect once the break clause has ended the tenancy.
                        So, that sounds like several month's away at the very earliest.

                        If the landlord is expecting to move back to the UK and wants to move into the property before then they'll have to reach some agreement with you that you're happy with.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Thank you for all your help jpkeates and everyone who devoted their time to assist with this

                          Comment

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