Huge change for renters to be announced TOMORROW in major shake-up of tenant’s rights

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    #31
    Originally posted by scampicat View Post
    (But may have to evict my lovely tenants if the grounds for eviction such as selling up become discretionary).
    As they say the devil is in the detail..... if i cannot evict for selling up without any questions asked (well maybe proof i will be selling etc), and it is down to a judge deciding that (in their opinion) i can or cannot sell, then like you, my tenants will be out asap.

    There is no way a landlord should not be able to sell HIS/HER asset.

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      #32
      Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
      To return to the topic, are we going to see a surge in ASBO tenants? Is there any evidence from Scotland?
      I don't think we will see a surge, but what i think we will see is a build up of ASBO/ASB tenants who in the s21 world would have been evicted and cleared through the system, who now will all start to block up, it will all be down to what benchline will you need to show for ASB to be proven and the possession order to be given ? If you will need a Police (crime) conviction attached then we are up the river with not a paddle in sight.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Hudson01 View Post
        I don't think we will see a surge, but what i think we will see is a build up of ASBO/ASB tenants who in the s21 world would have been evicted and cleared through the system, who now will all start to block up, it will all be down to what benchline will you need to show for ASB to be proven and the possession order to be given .
        Obviously, it does depend on the details.

        I had a quick search through the Scottish hearings, and 19 out of 20 cases which mention antisocial behaviour were evicted (and the other one seemed to have solved their problems with the neighbours).
        e.g., https://www.housingandpropertychambe...0_Redacted.pdf

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          #34
          Originally posted by Hudson01 View Post
          As they say the devil is in the detail..... if i cannot evict for selling up without any questions asked (well maybe proof i will be selling etc), and it is down to a judge deciding that (in their opinion) i can or cannot sell, then like you, my tenants will be out asap.

          There is no way a landlord should not be able to sell HIS/HER asset.
          The way it works in Scotland seems a reasonable model.
          You serve notice on the ground that you plan to sell the property and you're asked to provide some evidence of your intent (which looks like a fairly simple thing to provide).

          If you then don't sell, the evicted tenant can apply for compensation, which can be up to six month's rent.
          The penalty is at the courts discretion - the first case of someone claiming they were moving in and then reletting was a three month rent penalty.

          I am not in any way familiar with Scottish Law, but I haven't found anything to suggest that the eviction could be undone in any way.
          So it looks like a knowable risk, to me.

          And Scottish property sales are different than in England, because an accepted offer is a contract, so sales are usually "confirmed" much earlier than in England.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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            #35
            The only such notice we have served is where the landlord died, probate been granted, and the beneficiaries wanted their legacies in Charlie Ash

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              #36
              Originally posted by nukecad View Post
              Issuing a s21 has become a 'go-to' response for some to any problem even the slightest problem.
              Of course that is going to be the case. The problem is that "slight" problems (in your view) are common predictors of massive problems. And because the lead in time to dealing with such problems is many months or even years (with tens of thousands of £ and a 400K asset at risk) it makes sense to deal soon with "slight" problems.

              You are blaming the wrong part of the system. And in so doing to are causing even more harm to tenants - so I suggest you back off hurting them.

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                #37
                No one knows how many section 21 notices are issued, only how many end up in court.

                If the notices issued follow the same pattern as those that end up in court, they're not that common, with most of them coming from a small number of London boroughs (historically - the pandemic behaviour was similar but not identical).

                The concern repeatedly expressed by renters is a fear that a section 21 could be used at anytime and the resulting uncertainty and stress.
                The proposed ban seems aimed to address this, and not any actual "wave" of section 21 notices.
                Shelter generated hysteria notwithstanding.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

                  Of course that is going to be the case. The problem is that "slight" problems (in your view) are common predictors of massive problems. And because the lead in time to dealing with such problems is many months or even years (with tens of thousands of £ and a 400K asset at risk) it makes sense to deal soon with "slight" problems.

                  You are blaming the wrong part of the system. And in so doing to are causing even more harm to tenants - so I suggest you back off hurting them.
                  For tenants it’s mainly fighting against revenge evictions from slum landlords when asking for basic repairs (how dare they ask the landlord to uphold their end of the contract).

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by mokka View Post

                    For tenants it’s mainly fighting against revenge evictions from slum landlords
                    If this comes in, they'll be a lot more slum landlords to fill the vacuum who won't bother with the niceties of section 21's.

                    Those who fail to learn from history.....

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by mokka View Post
                      For tenants it’s mainly fighting against revenge evictions from slum landlords when asking for basic repairs (how dare they ask the landlord to uphold their end of the contract).
                      Evidence-based law-making is always useful -- and this^^^ is not evidence -- or correct.

                      In any case it is pretty damn easy for a tenant to have a contract upheld -- a lot harder, often impossible (and many times more costly) for a landlord to do so. Which is why rents are so high. So many silly and evidence-ignorant comments and bad laws are made that continue to harm tenants.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by boletus View Post

                        If this comes in, they'll be a lot more slum landlords to fill the vacuum who won't bother with the niceties of section 21's.

                        Those who fail to learn from history.....
                        Yup if the laws are bad enough and the court system fails enough the slum landlords will simply revert to breaking legs when tenants decide to
                        a) "Paint" the place without permission
                        b) Let dogs run rampant causing extensive damage
                        c) Don't pay any rent and think that stealing is just OK, and landlord can't pay mortgage or for repairs
                        d) Refuse to depart when they don't want to adhere to their half of the deal

                        Nobody wants that, but that is exactly what we will get. History of bad law....

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

                          Evidence-based law-making is always useful -- and this^^^ is not evidence -- or correct.

                          In any case it is pretty damn easy for a tenant to have a contract upheld -- a lot harder, often impossible (and many times more costly) for a landlord to do so. Which is why rents are so high. So many silly and evidence-ignorant comments and bad laws are made that continue to harm tenants.
                          Not really easy given the number of articles I’ve seen of revenge evictions and the fear some tenants have of asking for repairs.

                          Anyway that is the reason given for ending section 21.

                          However, it has a negative effect on decent landlords who do their best which unfairly effects them from having full control over their asset which I do agree with it. A few bad apples ruining it for the majority of decent landlords out there.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by mokka View Post
                            Not really easy given the number of articles I’ve seen of revenge evictions and the fear some tenants have of asking for repairs.
                            I agree that this is something that many tenants are worried about.
                            I have tenants who don't tell me about things that I'd be more than happy to fix because they're worried about what would happen if they ask.

                            One tenant said they'd waited for three days before summoning up enough nerve to ask if they could keep a dog, not only because they were afraid I'd say no, but that I might throw them out for asking.

                            It's hard not to feel like the new partner of someone who's been abused previously, sometimes.

                            I do think it's important that people don't live in fear of their landlords.

                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                              I agree that this is something that many tenants are worried about.
                              I have tenants who don't tell me about things that I'd be more than happy to fix because they're worried about what would happen if they ask.

                              One tenant said they'd waited for three days before summoning up enough nerve to ask if they could keep a dog, not only because they were afraid I'd say no, but that I might throw them out for asking.

                              It's hard not to feel like the new partner of someone who's been abused previously, sometimes.

                              I do think it's important that people don't live in fear of their landlords.
                              Totally agree with you.

                              However, I do feel landlords should have total control over their own assets and I do not agree with ending section 21.

                              Another one is this EPC rating of grade C. The landlords who do fix up properties to this grade will just increase the rent to get their investment back.

                              double edge sword policies.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by mokka View Post
                                However, I do feel landlords should have total control over their own assets and I do not agree with ending section 21.
                                I think there are better options.
                                Reform would be better - increase the notice period required to four months, for example.

                                But they're just not used that often in real life, and I suspect that if you could use a section 8 notice to allow possession to sell a property, losing section 21 wouldn't be such a big deal.

                                Another one is this EPC rating of grade C. The landlords who do fix up properties to this grade will just increase the rent to get their investment back.
                                That's true, but it's much worse than that.
                                A number of the properties I own would be difficult or next to impossible to get to a C.
                                They're semi detached or terraced which limits what I can do to them realistically (and I'd imagine lots of flats have similar issues).

                                And paying £10k per property to fail to achieve anything isn't appealing.

                                I'm going to have to get a number of them re-assessed to current EPC standards, and some of them will have to be sold if the proposed change goes ahead.
                                And, to be honest, I might have to sell them on the basis that I've concluded that the change will probably go ahead, because I don't want to be caught in a large scale landlord sell off of similar properties.

                                That would probably be at least six households being made homeless, all of whom are probably as happy to carry on living in their D rated properties as I am living in mine.

                                And I'd imagine there are a lot of other landlords in similar positions.

                                Can you imagine the effects on rent if even (say) 10% of rental properties are removed from the market?
                                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                                Comment

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