What "expenses" can I claim in an MCOL for rent arears?

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    What "expenses" can I claim in an MCOL for rent arears?

    Might not be called "expenses" but I mean out of pocket expenses which I had to spend to get someone to court.

    This in relation to my other post about a PCOL here https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...ession-hearing

    What I want to claim:
    The PCOL fee
    The MCOL fee
    Time that I have spent doing all this forum posts ;-) and researching, writing up all info in a letter, spreadsheets etc - essentially what a lawyer would have done for me instead.
    fee for barrister (if i decide to get one to represent me in court)
    Can I add on any cash for stress?

    I know most say the chances of getting money back are slim anyway, but that usually only applies non employed people. My tenant is a nurse and I am hoping to get order setup so that her employer will pay me directly.

    Please don't laugh if any of the above sounds adsurd (like money for stress etc), I have no idea on these things and just don't want to get screwed. My tenant owes me 6k and is now refusing to pay completely.

    thanks,

    #2
    Using MCOL, what you can claim is very limited.
    You couldn’t claim the legal costs you suggest, for example.

    You can claim the court fees and interest.
    People have claimed to have been compensated for work time lost attending court, but I’ve never tried personally.

    MCOL is intended to be a less formal claim and things are kept as simple as possible.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      keep it simple and to the point should give you a greater chance of success, so I agree with above.

      Plus bear in mind that MCOL is really set up to save court time so you need to be aware that compromise on whats due may be expected if its not clear cut

      Comment


        #4
        In one of your previous threads about this tenancy I asked what address for the serving of notice you have given the tenant and you replied saying you would use your parents' address which did not answer my question. This is important because if you have not provided the tenant with an address in England or Wales for the serving of notice then she cannot be in arrears for no rent is due until such an address is supplied to her.

        https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...question/page2

        A lot of the stress could have been avoided if you had acted on the first Section 8 notice instead of issuing multiple Section 8 notices. I can't see MCOL awarding you money for stress anyway. How exactly would that be quantified in a small claims court? What medical records could you provide?

        Comment


          #5
          I add on litigant in person fees. Google it for the latest hourly rate. If the defendant doesn’t respond you’ll get it. If it goes to court you might not get it. I didn’t the last time I went to court. From what I remember the judge disallowed it as the amount was less than £5k. I doubt you’ll be allowed anything for stress. You can add on any court fees, expenses such as bus fair or parking, and interest.

          Comment


            #6
            You shouldn't be able to claim litigant in person fees in a small claims case (although it might be worth trying if the judge simply nods the case through if the defendant doesn't show up and you win by default!)

            Although on that basis, you could probably claim for anything!
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DoricPixie View Post
              A lot of the stress could have been avoided if you had acted on the first Section 8 notice instead of issuing multiple Section 8 notices. I can't see MCOL awarding you money for stress anyway. How exactly would that be quantified in a small claims court? What medical records could you provide?
              I know, I am not saying I AM entitled to it, I was just asking if it is a "thing" you can do. All good if not.

              Re the eviction notice, sorry I thought i did answer that. I have the letter with me right now. There is a section which I fill in as so:

              7. Name and address of landlord, licensor or landlord’s agent:
              (To be completed in full by the landlord, licensor, or, in the case of joint landlords / licensors, at least one of the joint landlords / licensors, or by someone authorised to give notice on the landlord’s / licensor’s behalf.)

              Signed
              xxx
              address here


              This is where I have listed my address for the correspondence. Is this sufficient? If no, how exactly am I meant to word it?
              And I am not saying you are wrong, but as I mentioned in my previous post too, the eviction notice I served her was a template from the Gov website; I would find it hard to believe that they missed out this critical piece of info if it is necessary. Here is the link to the exact eviction notice template I downloaded and used. Would you mind checking it out and letting me know if anything seems amiss?
              https://www.gov.uk/guidance/assured-...y-forms#form-3 - I downloaded form3 from that link and filled it in. And I read all the guide in the other doc.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
                I add on litigant in person fees. Google it for the latest hourly rate. If the defendant doesn’t respond you’ll get it. If it goes to court you might not get it. I didn’t the last time I went to court. From what I remember the judge disallowed it as the amount was less than £5k. I doubt you’ll be allowed anything for stress. You can add on any court fees, expenses such as bus fair or parking, and interest.
                Thank you for this, I will check it out

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mucker973 View Post

                  Thank you for this, I will check it out
                  Fare not fair 🤪. Expenses have to be reasonable.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by mucker973 View Post

                    I know, I am not saying I AM entitled to it, I was just asking if it is a "thing" you can do. All good if not.

                    Re the eviction notice, sorry I thought i did answer that. I have the letter with me right now. There is a section which I fill in as so:

                    7. Name and address of landlord, licensor or landlord’s agent:
                    (To be completed in full by the landlord, licensor, or, in the case of joint landlords / licensors, at least one of the joint landlords / licensors, or by someone authorised to give notice on the landlord’s / licensor’s behalf.)

                    Signed
                    xxx
                    address here


                    This is where I have listed my address for the correspondence. Is this sufficient? If no, how exactly am I meant to word it?
                    And I am not saying you are wrong, but as I mentioned in my previous post too, the eviction notice I served her was a template from the Gov website; I would find it hard to believe that they missed out this critical piece of info if it is necessary. Here is the link to the exact eviction notice template I downloaded and used. Would you mind checking it out and letting me know if anything seems amiss?
                    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/assured-...y-forms#form-3 - I downloaded form3 from that link and filled it in. And I read all the guide in the other doc.
                    The address for the serving of notices should have been provided to the tenant at the start of the tenancy ideally in the tenancy agreement itself.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mucker973 View Post
                      Re the eviction notice, sorry I thought i did answer that. I have the letter with me right now. There is a section which I fill in as so:

                      7. Name and address of landlord, licensor or landlord’s agent:
                      (To be completed in full by the landlord, licensor, or, in the case of joint landlords / licensors, at least one of the joint landlords / licensors, or by someone authorised to give notice on the landlord’s / licensor’s behalf.)

                      Signed
                      xxx
                      address here


                      This is where I have listed my address for the correspondence. Is this sufficient? If no, how exactly am I meant to word it?
                      And I am not saying you are wrong, but as I mentioned in my previous post too, the eviction notice I served her was a template from the Gov website; I would find it hard to believe that they missed out this critical piece of info if it is necessary.
                      It's nothing to do with the notice or the notice template.

                      There are requirements for things relating to tenancies that affect the validity of notices that aren't contained in the notice itself.

                      The requirement for a tenant to be given the landlords name and an address where notices can be served arising under Section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987.

                      s.48 Notification by landlord of address for service of notices.

                      (1)A landlord of premises to which this Part applies shall by notice furnish the tenant with an address in England and Wales at which notices (including notices in proceedings) may be served on him by the tenant.

                      (2)Where a landlord of any such premises fails to comply with subsection (1), any rent, service charge or administration charge otherwise due from the tenant to the landlord shall (subject to subsection (3)) be treated for all purposes as not being due from the tenant to the landlord at any time before the landlord does comply with that subsection.
                      That applies to all tenancies.

                      It's usually not an issue, because most tenancies in England and Wales have landlord who live in England or Wales and the landlord's address is usually on the tenancy agreement.
                      But where a landlord lives overseas or an agents address is used, or the landlord tries to be clever and omits the address it can cause a problem.
                      Particularly when a possession claim hinges on unpaid rent.
                      Because, until that information is given, the tenant doesn't have to pay rent, and therefore can't owe it.
                      A landlord would have to give the tenant the information required and then serve notice again when the rent wasn't paid as it should then have been.

                      It's not an issue unless the tenant uses it as a defence, but they're entitled to legal representation and it isn't only people on this forum who know this.

                      And there's no real guidance about which address you're meant to put on the Section 8 notice if you live somewhere other than your address for service in England or Wales.

                      And the address has to be one where you can be served notice. So if it's a friend or relative (or even a letting agent), in theory they can be asked what would happen if someone turned up with a summons for you (although I can't imagine that's ever happened in a simple possession claim).
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ah ok I see what you guys mean now. Yes the address is an England address. The tenency was set up all legit with a proper estate agent who has been doing this stuff for years and I paid them for it. It was my parents UK address so all good there.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Parents England or Wales address? UK not good enough, NI or Scotland address is of no use.


                          Not United, no King...
                          I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            So has anyone here done a MCOL before and can advise on the procedure?

                            Main question I have around this is that I was simply going to submit the MCOL alongside my PCOL. But when reading the MCOL requirements it states:

                            Before starting a claim, the court expects you and the defendant to take a number of steps to try to settle the dispute. These steps are known as ‘pre-action protocols’ and they involve you and the defendant trying to settle the issue without going to court (for example, you will usually need to send the defendant a letter before making the claim, providing sufficient information about the matter to allow them to understand your position, and allow them a chance to respond).

                            I can easily prove that I took (many many) number of steps to resolve this via text, email, etc. But I have only just learned of the possibility of sending them a letter - but it does may "usually" so it seems this not a hard requirement. Has anyone submitting an MCOL without sending this letter where emails are good enough?

                            If I must send a letter to her, does anyone know the minimum amount of time I put down for her to reply? I don't want to wait 28 days to get the ball rolling on this one. Example letter I found for MCOL here https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...m-aSFAC8Q6Jqan

                            Thanks

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                              Parents England or Wales address? UK not good enough, NI or Scotland address is of no use.


                              Not United, no King...
                              I meant England sorry - I am so used to saying "UK" all the time now here in Aus!

                              Comment

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