Taking tenant AND guarantor to small claims court for rent arrears - options?

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by mucker973 View Post
    How do I go about doing that an does it benefit me in any way?,
    You can't.
    It's not legal (Data Protection and potentially defamatory) and the council would just bin it.

    Leave a comment:


  • mucker973
    replied
    Serve s8 today. If you get chance explain (verbally only) "intentionally homeless" to tenant.
    The S8 has already been served two weeks ago. I'm now going to start the possession order.

    ... er, no, YOU on your own can't evict: See
    I know I can't forcefully evict them, maybe I didn't explain myself properly. I am aware it is just a notice to indicate to them that I am now taking legal steps to have them evicted.

    Rent paid cash, bank transfer?
    Bank

    Do we expect either no reference or only full honest one?
    Don't understan you here.


    Copy s8 to council to help ensure this cheat gets as little help, advice and hopefully no scarce housing from them.
    How do I go about doing that an does it benefit me in any way?

    thanks,

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by mucker973 View Post
    .............. I have done my research and found that I can evict my tenant with a section 8 notice giving only 2 weeks’ notice .......................
    ... er, no, YOU on your own can't evict: See
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/5

    5 Security of tenure.

    (1) An assured tenancy cannot be brought to an end by the landlord except by—
    (a) obtaining—
    (i) an order of the court for possession of the dwelling-house under section 7 or 21, and
    (ii) the execution of the order,
    (b) obtaining an order of the court under section 6A (demotion order), ...
    (An AST is but a special case of an assured tenancy...)

    It's that process, s8 or s21 etc, which takes time. Serving notice is just the start

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Serve s8 today. If you get chance explain (verbally only) "intentionally homeless" to tenant.

    Do we expect either no reference or only full honest one?

    Copy s8 to council to help ensure this cheat gets as little help, advice and hopefully no scarce housing from them.

    I'd also copy s8 to guarantor .. they might advise tenant to find a way of paying.

    It's 4 weekly rent that's the problem weekly is fine (but requires she has rent book). see
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...ading/ground-8
    - which gives terms for s8 for weekly, fortnightly, monthly, quarterly, annual rent but not e.g 4-weekly or rent paid every 5 days or every 4 months (4 months being what my letting agent uses for student lets..) Depends if judge understands and/or if tenant defends

    Rent paid cash, bank transfer?

    Leave a comment:


  • DoricPixie
    replied
    Organisations such as NRLA have lots of information for landlords although you do have to join. Shelter and Shelter Legal both have lots of information although really it’s for tenants rather than landlords but there’s nothing stopping you as a landlord reading it.

    You might be able to issue a Section 8 using ground 8 giving the tenant 2 weeks notice but your notice does not end the tenancy. The notice you serve is just notice that you might go to court to get a possession order. So you go to court, get the possession order and still the tenant doesn’t leave the property and you can’t fling her out or you’ll be committing a criminal offence. You would then have to engage county court bailiffs or transfer the case up to the high court so you can use high court enforcement officers (more expensive than cc bailiffs but swifter) to physically remove the tenant from the premises. As you can see the whole process can take a lot longer than the two weeks notice on the Section 8 so don’t dilly dally…get that notice served asap.

    Leave a comment:


  • mucker973
    replied
    Wow, are you actually saying that the it is likely to be 44 weeks before she is forced to leave?!!?

    To answer all your questions:

    I am very confident my S8 is perfect - I am pretty good in general about teaching myself, learning things and research, I would even go as far as to say I have a bit of OCD. For example, I have prob spent 20 hours (no joke, and solid hours) researching how to evict her legally so I don't get caught out. Most of material has came direct from UK gov website, reading every single page about evictions, every "special" circumstance etc. And I've read the housing act too on evictions.

    There are no repairs needed - She hasn't even reported any. I have always repairded stuff within 3 days of her requesting. However! The last time the boiler broke (about 2 months) ago, the relationship was on its decline and she'd missed 2 MORE payments on the run so I said I did not have the money to pay for it. I know this isn't good, and I reconsidered it and then got it fixed. I don't think this should be an issue but putting it here for transparancy - she was without hot water for about 2-3 days, I still think that's reasonable right?

    There is no way she can pay back up to being only 2 months in arrears, believe me I would love this to be the case. She simply hasn't got the money, and I do believe her on this part. She isn't a nasty person or dolite, or scumbag, she's just useless with her money, we think she has an addiction problem somewhere. She simply can't manage her money.

    The tenancy is setup to be paid monthly. Not sure why the S8 might not apply if it was weekly though as you say. Interested why you say this?

    I have no training in this type of stuff, or her. But as I said, if the info is freely available on the net, I will find it and learn it.

    Thanks,

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Bit of a piece of string question. Are you confident your s8 is perfect? Any repairs tenants might raise (appreciate you'll disagree) that could persuade judge to reduce debt for cost of repairs? What chance tenant pays just enough rent to reduce debt to less than 2 months do s8g8 no longer applies? What does tenancy state about when rent payable? If 4-weekly s8g8 should not apply.

    Are you going eviction only or with debt? Using McoL?

    What training in landlord/tenant law?

    Eviction from serving valid notice has been quoted as 44 weeks recently. Given Tory government reductions in court numbers and funding and legal aid (no legal aid means more people defending themselves which usually takes longer, timescales aren't attractive.

    Leave a comment:


  • mucker973
    replied
    Well I can't find the guarantee so let's just forget that path. I wasn't likely to go there anyway, was just looking to see what my options where. So from your experience, can you answer my questions around how long the whole process is likely to take when I start the possession order?
    thanks,

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Although a guarantee may be unenforceable (legally), it might turn out it's worth demanding money from guarantor, some might just pay...

    Leave a comment:


  • DoricPixie
    replied
    Originally posted by mucker973 View Post
    thank you both for your comments, I have only just saw these as I didn't get much response initially so thought the post was dead. This is very important for me, please can you assist further with the below.

    I know what you mean about the guarantor legal side being tricky but let's just run under the assumption I can enforce it for now -the guarantor has ASKED me to take her off the contract so she definitely does think she is still liable.
    I know how to do a possession order from reading up here https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/...session-orders but can anyone advise a bit more around how this goes and for how long will it likely take? Any links to articles would also help.
    For example, after I submit the repossession order, how long is it before the tenant receives the notification from the courts? Then how long do they have to respond/action it? Then next steps etc.
    Thanks again!
    You know what happens when you assume...

    Best to take Lawcruncher's advice and post a copy of the guarantee to make sure it is valid otherwise you could spend time and money taking the guarantor to court only to end up with egg on your face.

    As I understand it with when using the Section 8 route for arrears you can't also have a MCOL concurrently for said arrears. Really you'd need to have the tenant evicted and then chase the tenant and guarantor (if the guarantee is valid) for the arrears using MCOL.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    I think it may be a good idea to post the guarantee leaving out names and addresses. You do not want to be suing the guarantor if there is no chance of success.

    Leave a comment:


  • mucker973
    replied
    thank you both for your comments, I have only just saw these as I didn't get much response initially so thought the post was dead. This is very important for me, please can you assist further with the below.

    I know what you mean about the guarantor legal side being tricky but let's just run under the assumption I can enforce it for now -the guarantor has ASKED me to take her off the contract so she definitely does think she is still liable.
    I know how to do a possession order from reading up here https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/...session-orders but can anyone advise a bit more around how this goes and for how long will it likely take? Any links to articles would also help.
    For example, after I submit the repossession order, how long is it before the tenant receives the notification from the courts? Then how long do they have to respond/action it? Then next steps etc.
    Thanks again!

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Because you're claiming repossession under section 8, there will have to be a hearing and the court has the opportunity to order the tenant to pay their debt as well as make out a possession order.
    So they'll do that.

    If they don't pay, you have two routes to try and collect the money owed.
    One is to pursue the tenant by enforcing the court's judgement, the other, assuming the debt is one that is covered by the guarantor agreement, is to make a claim against the guarantor, using the small claims process.

    As DoricPixie alludes to above, guarantor agreements are notoriously difficult to enforce legally.

    Leave a comment:


  • DoricPixie
    replied
    Are you positive that the deed for the guarantor was executed properly? One reason that she might be refusing to pay is that she knows the guarantee isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taking tenant AND guarantor to small claims court for rent arrears - options?

    Hi All,
    I have a tenant who has messed we around for some time now and owes a lot of arrears. Why it’s gone on this long is a long story and not important…

    The original contract was a 12 month AST and the tenants friend signed on as the guarantor. I have done my research and found that I can evict my tenant with a section 8 notice giving only 2 weeks’ notice as they owe so much rent on the grounds of 8, 10 and 11. I have served the notice and done it all officially by downloading the template from https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants. The tenant owes (roughly) 9 months worth of rent which is why I can evict them with such short notice. I have TONS of emails and text which show I have been very accommodating and tried to help. Each time we agree a new “term” she breaks it next month and I lower the payments yet again. These new terms have been broken about 5 times and its finally time to get rid.

    The parts I am unsure of is the next steps if she does not leave after 2 weeks, which I think is a distinct possibility. I know I must apply for a possession order. However, when I read up on it here https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/...session-orders it says you submit a claim to get them evicted AND claim your arears. But what if they do leave, how do I submit a claim to get my money only? Am I right in saying that there are two paths I can take here depending on whether they stay or not? I just want to make sure I am prepared and have read all the material so I can take the right action when the eviction date has passed.

    The other part to this is the guarantor. She is also refusing to pay. Again, when I look at the above links I can’t see how (if you can) I can take her to court too to force her to pay. Any advice or experience around this would be greatly appreciated. Btw, the 12 month contract does say that the guarantor is still responsible after the 12 month period so she is still liable I believe.

    Thanks!

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