Am I going to have any issues with this s21?

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    Am I going to have any issues with this s21?

    for a s21 to be valid i need to give the tenant the gas certifcate, epc, eicr and the 'how to rent' guide before occupation

    Being a DSS tenant and not having access to their details prior to occupation, I emailed these documents to the council weeks before the tenant took occupancy at the property

    On arrival at the property, the tenant was given a hard copies of the documents.

    I did not take any pictures on the day to prove this. However, I did email the tenant (about 2 weeks later) confirming that hard copies were provided on arrival

    I also emailed the documents to the tenant about (3 weeks after occupation)

    I am now about to serve a s21 and want to know whether this will be valid or whether I may have issues?


    #2
    Whether or not it is valid will depend on the court, if your tenancy allows for communication via email then it may be valid, if it doesn't you may have an issue.

    Just for future reference, I always get the T's to sign a document will confirmation they have received all the compliance documents.

    Comment


      #3
      First of all it depends if the tenant decides to claim that they didn't receive the documents, many people don't lie about things.

      If they do, it will depend on whether the judge believes you or the tenant.

      It might be prudent to give the tenant copies of all of the documents again, before you serve the notice on a belt and braces approach.
      Hopefully you are talking to your tenant, so you can explain what you're doing and why.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
        First of all it depends if the tenant decides to claim that they didn't receive the documents, many people don't lie about things.

        If they do, it will depend on whether the judge believes you or the tenant.




        So if the tenant claims to not have received the documents, then what? I can never claim your property back?

        All of the documents I sent via email were sent via a service which tracks delivery and when the recipient views the doc. The tenant was asked to digitally sign to confirm reciept but they chose not to do this. The digital log is available.

        What more can one do?

        Also does the fact that these documents were sent to the council prior to occupation by their client counts for nothing?

        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
        It might be prudent to give the tenant copies of all of the documents again, before you serve the notice on a belt and braces approach.
        Hopefully you are talking to your tenant, so you can explain what you're doing and why.
        Are you referring to a hard copy? i.e. posting?

        Or can I email via the tacking service?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Cotton View Post
          So if the tenant claims to not have received the documents, then what? I can never claim your property back?
          All of the documents can be given to the tenant at any point - there is some issue with the GSC, but as long as there was a valid certificate it seems to be fine even if the tenant wasn't given a copy.

          So, no, it's not the end of the world - and the judge would have to believe the tenant over you, and you have a lot of supporting evidence anyway.

          All of the documents I sent via email were sent via a service which tracks deliver of the email and when the recipient views it. The tenant was asked to digitally sign the document but they chose not to do this. The digital log is available.
          The How to Rent guide can only be supplied electronically if the tenant has specifically agreed to allow such a service and given you an email address for the purpose.

          Personally, I never email important documents to tenants.

          Also does the fact that these documents were sent to the council prior to occupation by their client counts for nothing?
          That has no effect on anything.

          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Maybe you are over thinking this. Simply reserve the documents, send via Royal Mail and keep proof of posting. Don't send signed for as Tenant may refuse to accept the document.

            Your S21 wont fail if you have done everything correctly. A hearing would be called if Tenant disputed validity. It wouldn't simply fail on their say so. At that hearing you will have the opportunity to show evidence of your emails and further proof of documents via Royal Mail.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
              All of the documents can be given to the tenant at any point - there is some issue with the GSC, but as long as there was a valid certificate it seems to be fine even if the tenant wasn't given a copy.

              So, no, it's not the end of the world - and the judge would have to believe the tenant over you, and you have a lot of supporting evidence anyway.

              The How to Rent guide can only be supplied electronically if the tenant has specifically agreed to allow such a service and given you an email address for the purpose.

              Personally, I never email important documents to tenants.

              That has no effect on anything.
              My AST states the following

              'The tenant consents to receive communication via email'

              'The Tenant agrees that any notices given under or in connection with this agreement (that are required to be given in writing) may be sent via email. The only exception is the s21 and s8 which must be served in hard copy form.


              Originally posted by Claymore View Post
              Maybe you are over thinking this. Simply reserve the documents, send via Royal Mail and keep proof of posting. Don't send signed for as Tenant may refuse to accept the document.

              Your S21 wont fail if you have done everything correctly. A hearing would be called if Tenant disputed validity. It wouldn't simply fail on their say so. At that hearing you will have the opportunity to show evidence of your emails and further proof of documents via Royal Mail.
              I probably am overthinking this.

              However to be prudent, I am going to email all of the docs (how to rent, EICR, EPC etc etc via the digital tracking service

              and I will post out a hard copy too

              Comment


                #8
                Also check it out against....
                https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/
                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                Comment


                  #9
                  a) Never sign a tenancy agreement with someone whose name/details/record you don't even know - why would you do this.

                  a2) Never let someone else choose your tenants - even if you use a tenant-find process you always have the final word after doing your OWN extensive research

                  b) Never hand over the keys until you have the first month of rent and the deposit in your bank account in cleared funds

                  c) Never hand over the keys until you have a signed draft inventory, and signed confirmation of receipt for all relevant documents in your hand, as well as a signed copy of the tenant(s) passports having compared those to the originals.

                  d) Never deal with City Councils or the type of tenant you describe.

                  These things are pretty basic.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Cotton View Post
                    'The Tenant agrees that any notices given under or in connection with this agreement (that are required to be given in writing) may be sent via email. The only exception is the s21 and s8 which must be served in hard copy form.
                    This is probably OK, although it might be best to specify the addresses that will be used.

                    It's very hard to prove that email has been delivered in any meaningful way unless the recipient responds in some way. Luckily most serious queries are resolved on the balance of probabilities, so more likely than not does it.

                    Only one prescribed requirement (the How to Rent booklet) specifically allows email, the other requirements don't seem to mention it at all.

                    I have doubts that emailing the deposit prescribed information would be valid, because the tenant has to have an opportunity to sign it, and I don't see how an email does that.
                    But that's only my opinion.

                    I send everything hard copy by mail.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Cotton View Post

                      My AST states the following

                      'The tenant consents to receive communication via email'

                      'The Tenant agrees that any notices given under or in connection with this agreement (that are required to be given in writing) may be sent via email. The only exception is the s21 and s8 which must be served in hard copy form.
                      This is a VERY silly term to have a in a tenancy agreement IMHO.

                      Comment

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