Economy 7 and a smart meter

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    Economy 7 and a smart meter

    I bought my tenant three new night storage heaters at the beginning of last year to replace the old ones.

    I have just taken back management of this flat and a couple of weeks ago she emailed me about them. I told her that this particular meter had the economy 7 coming on at 8am in the morning so I gave her instructions on how to set the heaters.

    She has just emailed me to say "Sorry to email you both but i think the elecricity situation is getting out of hand for me. I received a £140 rebate on 12/11. Down to last £10. I did everything the way it was recommended something is not right in the flat. Maybe my meter. I have smart meter the money has gone straight on there. That’s around 3 weeks and £130 later. Still freezing."

    Smart meter! Where did that come from? Can she just change the meter without my permission? This came up six years ago when she wanted a pre-payment meter and it took a lot of emails to the letting agents to stop that happening.

    #2
    Tenant has been for years perfectly entitled to change meter and/or suppliers. Nice when they tell you but usually they don't have to.

    I normally don't buy tenants things like storage radiators, preferring to retain ownership of them myself.
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by NaomiB View Post

      Smart meter! Where did that come from? Can she just change the meter without my permission? This came up six years ago when she wanted a pre-payment meter and it took a lot of emails to the letting agents to stop that happening.
      Do you control their Matalan account too?

      Comment


        #4
        My money is on the fact they weren’t set up properly . And by that I mean the storage heaters and /or the smart meters

        Comment


          #5
          I haven't had anything to do with her account as it has been fully managed for about nine years. I didn't buy her the new heaters, they go with the flat. If she leaves she can't take them with her.

          The reason I didn't want her to change the meter was because I thought it was an advantage worth having the cheap rate coming on during the daytime. You may disagree. A pre-payment meter is also going to cost more for the electricity.

          I'll have to get it sorted out. This has been going on for some years but I guess it is more of a problem now because she is a single mum with a son who's about 11 or 12 and she just started a university course in education. She's behind with the rent but assures me it will all be up to date by the end of January. It's a nice thought but am not at all sure she'll manage it.

          Comment


            #6
            Welcome to my world: https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...-understand-e7

            To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you. I will have a good read later. At the moment I'm having a job getting my mind round it. There are so many strands to it. She's started at university, she's 30 something, probably on benefits, missed a month's rent because of problems with her son's new uniform, doesn't know how to work the electricity. The meter has been changed, there are three two year old storage heaters. Why wasn't this a problem before?

              She said three weeks ago that "I need to know how to use these storage heaters. They are costing me around 4/5 pounds a night at moment. My economy 7 plug doesn’t work. Has never worked and has been inspected but nothing could be done." So, I, very helpfully, explained about the meter and the economy 7 coming on during the day! Unfortunately, because I didn't know the meter had been changed to a smart, pre-payment one it was all the wrong advice and has made things much worse.

              Any idea what she means by an economy 7 plug? I will ask her to send pictures.

              Comment


                #8
                If as the LL you knew the E7 timer was incorrect (coming on during the day isn't correct) , what you allowed to continue is bordering on fraud

                Comment


                  #9
                  How and why is the 'economy 7' coming on at 8am?! If you are on an Economy tariff your heaters will be heating up on the higher price. This sounds all wrong.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jpucng62 View Post
                    How and why is the 'economy 7' coming on at 8am?! If you are on an Economy tariff your heaters will be heating up on the higher price. This sounds all wrong.
                    Er no.

                    when the timer activates the E7, then all the lecky for the next 6 or 7 hours is charged at the lower rate

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes, it may sound all wrong. When the flats were built in 1972 the explanation I was given by the electrician was that the economy 7 was staggered so that it came on at different times. They couldn't have the whole building of about 23 flats all switching their electricity on at 12am. If it was fraud then I certainly wasn't aware that it was.

                      It's history now. My tenant is living on benefits in a very large flat with three decent sized storage heaters, no cavity wall insulation and a pre-paid smart meter which she says she had to have for 'debt issues'. It would be in her interest to move to a smaller flat with gas central heating. If she does, I will sell it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The idea of economy 7 is cheap electricity at times of less demand on the grid. It can't start at 8am.
                        However smart meters are still compatible with these tariffs and most suppliers will comply.
                        You need to find out if she is still on a cheap night rate tariff and if so then show her how to work the timers, if not then she needs to put on a jumper.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Neelix View Post

                          when the timer activates the E7, then all the lecky for the next 6 or 7 hours is charged at the lower rate
                          You clearly know more about this than me - but how can you get economy 7 tariff electricity at peak times? Surely it negates the whole point of using electricity when demand is low & so getting it cheap? How is everything else on the 'normal' ring charged?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            When I was doing up this flat ten years ago I often stayed there overnight. After a bit, I found it funny that the storage heaters seemed to be coming on during the daytime. I investigated and the electrician showed me the meter and when it was programmed for the cheap rate to come on. It's no good saying it can't start at 8am, it did.

                            But, as I said, this is now history. She is on a pre-payment smart meter and I will have to sort it out. And why, as she says, the economy 7 button doesn't work.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Section20z View Post
                              The idea of economy 7 is cheap electricity at times of less demand on the grid. It can't start at 8am.
                              However smart meters are still compatible with these tariffs and most suppliers will comply.
                              You need to find out if she is still on a cheap night rate tariff and if so then show her how to work the timers, if not then she needs to put on a jumper.
                              I have two properties with all electric heating and when i purchased them they had very old storage heaters which were of zero use and i had them changed to normal electric radiators (the tenants love them now) but the sockets they were plugged into were separate from the rest of the sockets at the fuse board, they only started to receiver '' power '' after midnight and then cut off at around 7.00am the next morning..... the cheapest time to take the electricity, i cannot see how and E7 tariff would start at 8.00am in the morning. It all sounds a real mess.

                              E7 combined with a smart meter and storage heaters in a flat with a tenant who understands none of it sounds a real pain, i would go down there and try and sort it out asap.

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