Landlord dispute - As guarantor I'm on the hook for missing payments

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    #16
    Originally posted by landlord-man View Post
    If she needed extra for food and heat, I'd have expected that she would at least have paid half the rent.
    To be fair, that option never seems to occur to any tenant.

    It's always all or nothing.

    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #17
      Hi landlord-man, thanks for taking an interest in this post. I think you maybe being sidetracked by some of the back story here. I am posting as the guarantor looking for some advice as to how best to handle a situation in which I am caught in the middle. I accept your point on the missing rent, but when a service is so poor, if the roles were reversed between myself and my friend I think I would be hard pushed to want to pay for what she was living in (but yes the money is gone, I am not very happy with this, extra expense was incurred by my friend but not to the extent of the missing rent). Unfortunately I can't upload video files up to this site, but I think they are pretty damming. How the landlord has handled the eviction I think is also pretty poor. I know that I won't be acting as a guarantor for anyone else anytime soon, but that doesn't help my current situation. In summary, I do think my friend has behaved poorly towards myself, but I can't quite bring myself to blame her for her response to the landlord, I can see that you will have a different opinion, but that is not one that I feel needs to be discussed here, but one for the tenant and landlord to sort out between them.

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        #18
        ASSURED SHORTHOLD TENANCY AGREEMENT For letting a dwelling on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy under Part 1 of the Housing Act 1988 as amended by the Housing Act 1996. Please note this tenancy agreement is an important document. It may commit you to certain actions for the period of any fixed term and beyond. Please ensure that if you do not understand your legal rights you consult a housing advice centre, solicitor or Citizens' Advice Bureau. This agreement is made the 2020-09-11 1 Particulars 1.1 Parties 1.1.1 The Landlord Contact Address: Contact Telephone Number: Email Address: 1.1.2 The Tenant 2 1.1.3 Permitted Occupier(s) Those persons defined as permitted occupiers do not have any rights or obligations as per the Tenants listed in clause 1.1.2 and are only permitted to reside at the Property with the permission of the Tenant. The permitted Occupiers are: Not Applicable 1.1.4 Relevant Person The Relevant Persons are: Not Applicable 1.1.5 Managing agent 1.1.6 Rights of Third Parties 1.1.7 Right to Disclose Information Under no circumstance shall any party to this contract be permitted to disclose personal information to a third party not stated above, without the consent of the relevant parties. The party responsible for managing the property shall be xxxxxxxxx, who the tenant shall contact for the purposes of arranging maintenance, providing notices, arranging extensions, and to make payment of rent. The parties intend that no clause of this agreement may be enforced by any third party, other than to xxxxxxx, pursuant to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. The parties listed above agree that xxxxxxx may provide their name, address and other contact details to, where required, contractors, utility providers, the BBBBBB, debt collectors, solicitors, the SSSSS, and the appropriate tenancy deposit protection scheme provider. 1.1.8 The Guarantor 3 1.2 Definitions and summary 1.2.1 'The Tenant' shall mean any and all parties listed under clause 1.1.2. 1.2.2 'The landlord' shall mean any and all parties listed under clause 1.1.1, and their successors in title from time to time. 1.2.3 The Landlord lets, and the Tenant takes the Property for the Term at the Rent payable upon the terms and conditions of this agreement. 1.2.4 This agreement is intended to create an Assured Shorthold Tenancy as defined in Part 1 of the Housing Act 1988 (including any subsequent amendments). These tenancies do not guarantee the Tenant any right to remain in possession after the fixed term. 1.3 Property 1.4.1 The Term shall be from and including 11 Sep 2020 to and including 10 Sep 2021. 1.4.2 The “Term” is to include any periodic continuation of the tenancy beyond 10 Sep 2021. 1.4.3 The Landlord may bring the tenancy to an end at any time after 10 Sep 2021 by giving to the Tenant at least two months written notice stating that the Landlord requires possession of the Property. A notice under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 will be sufficient to implement this sub-clause. 1.4.4 The Tenant may bring the tenancy at any time after 10 Sep 2021 by giving to the Landlord at least two months written notice stating that the Tenant wishes to vacate the Property. A letter will suffice to implement this subclause. 1.4.5 This agreement may be ended by landlord or tenant giving at least 2 months' notice in writing, to expire at any time after 6 months from the start of this agreement.

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          #19
          The post above is the start of the contract that I signed, just in case it is helpful in determining the type of contract involved. It is worth mentioning that the name of the management company is littered throughout the document. The management company apart from the first 4 weeks was never in the picture and they are not currently involved. I'm hoping that might make an impact on the validity of the document?

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            #20
            As I understand things, you would only sign that document to say that you have seen it and understand that it is the tenant's obligations under that contract which you are guaranteeing. Your guarantor agreement is separate.
            Assume I know nothing.

            Comment


              #21
              That is to say, it could be in the same document but it would be your own specific agreement.
              Assume I know nothing.

              Comment


                #22
                Hi Hooper, thank you for offering some guidance. That is certainly the only document I remember signing and the only one that I can find in my email. Having just gone through it to remove the names (only to find that it's too large to upload here) I didn't see anything that was more specific to myself

                Comment


                  #23
                  In what capacity did you sign it?

                  Are you sure you're a guarantor and not a joint tenant?
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #24
                    The Tenant is advised to ensure they have read and understood this agreement before signing it. SIGNATURE OF THE TENANT SIGNATURE OF THE GUARANTOR SIGNATURE OF LANDLORD Powered by TCPDF (www.tcpdf.org) 7.1 In consideration for the Landlord granting the Tenant a tenancy of the Property, the Guarantor agrees to pay xxxxxx for any reasonable losses suffered as a result of the Tenant failing to fulfil any of his obligations under this agreement or failing to pay Rent or other monies lawfully due. 7.2 The Guarantor agrees to pay, on demand and in full, any overdue Rent or other monies lawfully due under this agreement for the full Term and until vacant possession is given to the Landlord. 7.3 The Guarantor agrees to make payments lawfully due under clause 7.1 or 7.2 even after the Tenant has returned possession of the Property to the Landlord. YYYYYYYY GGGGGG LLLLLLL Issuer Arthur Online Document generated Fri, 11 Sep 2020 17:13:57 +0100 Document fingerprint 4f939c3e85be95939e24924b7d04df61 Parties involved with this document Document processed Party + Fingerprint Audit history log Date Action

                    There is only one place in the document where I have signed (as indicated by GGGGGGG). I am sandwiched between the tenant signature (YYYY) and Landlord signature (LLLLLL)

                    Comment


                      #25
                      I can't see anywhere where it indicates I am anything other than a guarantor

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by gnicholls View Post
                        I can't see anywhere where it indicates I am anything other than a guarantor
                        I'd hate to be a landlord relying on that agreement to enforce a debt against a guarantor.

                        Ignoring the whole background story, I'd be inclined to decline the landlord's demands for money and see what they do.

                        The tenant should resume paying rent.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I have just received back a copy of the Deposit Protection Certificate from the landlord. It is with mydeposits.co.uk and runs from the 27th Jan 2021 (my friend moved in on the 11th September. The document has the details of both the landlord and the tenant, but no signature for either (there is a section2 for this purpose which is blank). Not really sure what implication this has? I suspect that this is the document in question that the landlord attempted to get my friend to sign. Interestingly she sent me a copy of someone else's DPC as well equally blank in the section2

                          Comment


                            #28
                            I use guarantees quite a lot and would not have thought that was enforceable. For starters, it is not a deed. It also does ensure that you have been made aware of the significant implications of acting as guarantor. That said, my views on what constitutes a valid guarantee have been somewhat influenced by respected posters on this site (such as JP above and Lawcruncher). But I think this is your starting point.
                            Assume I know nothing.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Whatever the outcome of your personal situation it does highlight why LLs won't take tenants who don't meet their affordability criteria - with or without a guarantor. That is bad news for low income tenants.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I never take tenants who need a guarantor..... i deem them as more trouble than they are worth (aka this whole post) if the tenant cannot afford it on their own then they look elsewhere.

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