Can I use an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement for a 2 month rental?

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  • Hooper
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    Thankyou. For the holiday lets does your insurance company require you to have some sort of contract in place with your guests ? If so what contract do you use?
    No it doesn't require any contract for holiday lets. It does require minimum 6 month for the AST. It also differentiates between AST tenants and holiday let tenants in that AST tenants need to be professionals - holiday lets do not have the same requirements.

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  • stanleyman
    replied
    Thankyou. For the holiday lets does your insurance company require you to have some sort of contract in place with your guests ? If so what contract do you use?

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    Thanks again. Another reason I wanted to get an ASL in place is that it seems almost impossible to get landlord insurance without one (unless I am missing something?).
    You're missing out by trying to buy online?

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  • Hooper
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    Thanks again. Another reason I wanted to get an ASL in place is that it seems almost impossible to get landlord insurance without one (unless I am missing something?). Overall it still seems like the best option given that I do not believe guests overstaying is a material risk to me (given their profile)
    Depends what you mean by landlord's insurance. My buildings policy (freehold house arranged as self contained granny flat and main house) expressly covers me for both ASTs and short term holiday lets. Includes liability to occupiers. Can't recommend my policy or the brokers as I'm going through a claim at the moment and both are terrible, although it is not related to the holiday letting side of things.

    Regarding over stays, I've had well over 50 short term (weekend to 2 months) whole home lets and never had an over stay.

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  • stanleyman
    replied
    Thanks again. Another reason I wanted to get an ASL in place is that it seems almost impossible to get landlord insurance without one (unless I am missing something?). Overall it still seems like the best option given that I do not believe guests overstaying is a material risk to me (given their profile)

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    What I am worried about (and why I am doing all this) is safety / public liability issues. E.g. if the guest has an accident in my flat and dies. If the guest accidentally leaves the taps on and floods all the downstairs flats. If the guest causes a fire which damages next door..
    You can only really insure against those kind of risks, they're not avoidable because of the type of lease (they may mean you can't rely on the building's insurance policy, but they're unlikely to completely protect you from the risks you mention anyway.

    Tenants, lodgers and guests aren't likely to be treated as members of the public in liability insurance, unless someone's done a very good job of buying the policy.

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  • stanleyman
    replied
    This is the advice I got from a lawyer when I showed them the leasehold agreement FYI - (I was asking whether I was permitted to receive air b n b guests under the terms)
    The lease terms are ambiguous .

    If you enter into an assured shorthold tenancy (AST) with any occupier the occupation should not create a regulated tenancy - so the lease suggests that this is permitted - Schedule 4 paragraph (i)

    But I understand because of the short duration of the occupation through Air Bnb no AST is likely to be entered into.

    My guess is that a form of Licence is created when you deal through Air Bnb but I would need clearer instructions. Most people using Air BnB never seek advice from solicitors.

    The provision in the lease (4th Schedule paragraph (i)) talks about permitting “an underletting or otherwise”. If a Licence is created via Air BnB then this could be argued to fall within the words “or otherwise”.

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  • stanleyman
    replied
    Thankyou - I didnt realise that there was this degree of subjectivity in place regarding what an ASL was or wasn't. Government guidance on ASL's doesn't say anything about a minimum period and so I assumed there wasn't one.

    Regarding my leasehold agreement, it says:

    "Not at any time during the said term to assign underlet or part with possession of part only of the Demised Premises

    Not at any time during the said term to underlet the Demised Premises as a whole except by a shorthold tenancy or otherwise so as to prevent the creation of a regulated tenancy within the meaning of the Rent Act 1977 or any statutory re-enactment or amendment thereof"

    I received legal advice on this before which basically said that the lease does not preclude me from having an ASL (although I understand, informally, that the Freeholders are not happy with people holiday letting their flats e.g. through Air B n B).

    You are right that I am not too worried about the Freeholder complaining - I would deal with that when it comes and just get rid of the guests (or wait for their stay to naturally expire) - I don't see this as a major issue.

    What I am worried about (and why I am doing all this) is safety / public liability issues. E.g. if the guest has an accident in my flat and dies. If the guest accidentally leaves the taps on and floods all the downstairs flats. If the guest causes a fire which damages next door.

    I'm trying to protect myself from these "major incident" risks. I'm trying to work out how I can do this.

    Thankyou again for any advice! Its really really appreciated.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    To repeat, the reason I want an ASL in place (and not a holiday let, for example) is that it is legally allowed under my leasehold agreement whereas other forms of short term letting are not
    What kind of tenancy is in place doesn't depend on what the documentation says, it depends on the facts of the situation.
    That's a little bit of a simplification, but broadly correct.

    So you could use an AST agreement, protect the deposit and comply with all the regulations, but it could be that the tenancy isn't an AST, because a court or tribunal could (correctly in my view) decide that no one really lives somewhere for 2 months while " work[ing] remotely / enjoy[ing] leisure time."
    Which could put you in breach of your lease.

    In real life, I doubt it would matter - if the freeholder complained, the issue would be resolved by the tenant moving out rather than anything more serious.

    For the avoidance of doubt, the occupants couldn't become squatters, they might refuse to move out, but that would be because they would continue to be tenants (if its an AST) or trespassers (if it's a holiday let or a guest arrangement).

    I really think you want them to be paying guests, as I can't see how that would breach the lease (although I obviously haven't read it). You're not parting with possession in any material way.

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  • stanleyman
    replied
    I appreciate the responses but don’t feel my posts are being understood. The guest is paying me £11k for two months rent of the apartment - they are not a “squatter” risk.

    My guests are in London while they work remotely / enjoy leisure time. This could be called a holiday but I don’t see legally how you distinguish between the two. They are essentially living in my flat for two months so I conclude from the above posts that there is no reason an ASL cannot be put in place for that period (given there is no legal minimum limit to an ASL).

    I’ve got all the fire alarms, deposit and other processes in place. The hassle is worth it for the amount of money involved and there will be repeat guests who will use the same agreement

    To repeat, the reason I want an ASL in place (and not a holiday let, for example) is that it is legally allowed under my leasehold agreement whereas other forms of short term letting are not

    Thanks again

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  • DPT57
    replied
    EICR, GSC, EPC of at least an E, smoke and possibly CO alarms on every floor, having to protect the deposit correctly, landlord insurance, risk that they'll decide to stay on for a bit longer and you'll be homeless on your return..... And if the Council has a Selective Licence scheme in place, you'd have to apply for a licence, pay a fee of around £800 and possibly make other adaptations to your property to comply. Is it really worth it?

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  • landlord-man
    replied
    The OP lol

    I don’t know the guest but I’m not worried about risks of not being able to evict them after 2 months since they will be returning to their home country then

    The reason I want an ASL in place is that if the guest causes a major incident in my building

    So all will be perfect - except if it isn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    I don’t see what the legal difference is though - even though they are on holiday they are living in my flat temporarily. I don’t see why an AST couldn’t be put in place? Thanks very much again for input
    Because the law says it's different.
    And it's the law that says something's an AST or not.

    When someone is on holiday, they're obviously resident, but they're not living there.
    It's obviously possible to live somewhere for a short period, but not if you obviously actually live somewhere else.

    You're probably better off with it being a holiday let, rather than an AST.
    Even better to have them as a paying guest and you not move anything out.

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  • doobrey
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    I don’t see what the legal difference is though
    It is defined in the Housing Act 1988.

    See for instance https://england.shelter.org.uk/profe...ncy_definition

    An assured tenancy is a type of tenancy that some private tenants and most housing association tenants have. An assured tenancy is defined as a tenancy of a dwelling-house let as a separate dwelling to an individual, who is a single (sole) or joint tenant, where the tenant or at least one of the joint tenants occupies the house as their only or principal home.

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  • ram
    replied
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    I’m not worried about risks of not being able to evict them after 2 months since they will be returning to their home country then -
    Of course they will return to their country, why wont they ? and when he / she does not return, you wont be able to get them out easily.
    you need to see their return ticket ( not that you should allow them to say at your place in any event )

    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    a leaseholder
    The reason I want an ASL in place is that if the guest causes a major incident in my building then I am covered by my freehold buildings insurance
    No, you will not be covered by the freeholders buildings insurance, as the guest is not a leaseholder or shareholder, and does NOT live there.
    Any damage he / she commits, will be on you to pay to rectify once the guest has left the country and is not traceable anymore.

    YOU will need a Deed to be signed by the guest to observe all aspects of the lease except for service charges and ground rent ( normally refered to as "rent" in the lease ).
    A Judge once said, how can you expect a tenant to abide by the lease if said tenant was not given a complete copy of the lease, and he was not given a Deed to sign to observe the lease.

    The above reference to a deed must also be put in the AST, not that i advise you take this guest on.
    But again, "If they're not living there, it won't be an AST." it will be a holiday flat, and usually that is "no no".

    Words of wisdom -- Don't do it.



    Leave a comment:

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