Can I use an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement for a 2 month rental?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
    To repeat, the reason I want an ASL in place (and not a holiday let, for example) is that it is legally allowed under my leasehold agreement whereas other forms of short term letting are not
    What kind of tenancy is in place doesn't depend on what the documentation says, it depends on the facts of the situation.
    That's a little bit of a simplification, but broadly correct.

    So you could use an AST agreement, protect the deposit and comply with all the regulations, but it could be that the tenancy isn't an AST, because a court or tribunal could (correctly in my view) decide that no one really lives somewhere for 2 months while " work[ing] remotely / enjoy[ing] leisure time."
    Which could put you in breach of your lease.

    In real life, I doubt it would matter - if the freeholder complained, the issue would be resolved by the tenant moving out rather than anything more serious.

    For the avoidance of doubt, the occupants couldn't become squatters, they might refuse to move out, but that would be because they would continue to be tenants (if its an AST) or trespassers (if it's a holiday let or a guest arrangement).

    I really think you want them to be paying guests, as I can't see how that would breach the lease (although I obviously haven't read it). You're not parting with possession in any material way.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #17
      Thankyou - I didnt realise that there was this degree of subjectivity in place regarding what an ASL was or wasn't. Government guidance on ASL's doesn't say anything about a minimum period and so I assumed there wasn't one.

      Regarding my leasehold agreement, it says:

      "Not at any time during the said term to assign underlet or part with possession of part only of the Demised Premises

      Not at any time during the said term to underlet the Demised Premises as a whole except by a shorthold tenancy or otherwise so as to prevent the creation of a regulated tenancy within the meaning of the Rent Act 1977 or any statutory re-enactment or amendment thereof"

      I received legal advice on this before which basically said that the lease does not preclude me from having an ASL (although I understand, informally, that the Freeholders are not happy with people holiday letting their flats e.g. through Air B n B).

      You are right that I am not too worried about the Freeholder complaining - I would deal with that when it comes and just get rid of the guests (or wait for their stay to naturally expire) - I don't see this as a major issue.

      What I am worried about (and why I am doing all this) is safety / public liability issues. E.g. if the guest has an accident in my flat and dies. If the guest accidentally leaves the taps on and floods all the downstairs flats. If the guest causes a fire which damages next door.

      I'm trying to protect myself from these "major incident" risks. I'm trying to work out how I can do this.

      Thankyou again for any advice! Its really really appreciated.

      Comment


        #18
        This is the advice I got from a lawyer when I showed them the leasehold agreement FYI - (I was asking whether I was permitted to receive air b n b guests under the terms)
        The lease terms are ambiguous .

        If you enter into an assured shorthold tenancy (AST) with any occupier the occupation should not create a regulated tenancy - so the lease suggests that this is permitted - Schedule 4 paragraph (i)

        But I understand because of the short duration of the occupation through Air Bnb no AST is likely to be entered into.

        My guess is that a form of Licence is created when you deal through Air Bnb but I would need clearer instructions. Most people using Air BnB never seek advice from solicitors.

        The provision in the lease (4th Schedule paragraph (i)) talks about permitting “an underletting or otherwise”. If a Licence is created via Air BnB then this could be argued to fall within the words “or otherwise”.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
          What I am worried about (and why I am doing all this) is safety / public liability issues. E.g. if the guest has an accident in my flat and dies. If the guest accidentally leaves the taps on and floods all the downstairs flats. If the guest causes a fire which damages next door..
          You can only really insure against those kind of risks, they're not avoidable because of the type of lease (they may mean you can't rely on the building's insurance policy, but they're unlikely to completely protect you from the risks you mention anyway.

          Tenants, lodgers and guests aren't likely to be treated as members of the public in liability insurance, unless someone's done a very good job of buying the policy.

          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #20
            Thanks again. Another reason I wanted to get an ASL in place is that it seems almost impossible to get landlord insurance without one (unless I am missing something?). Overall it still seems like the best option given that I do not believe guests overstaying is a material risk to me (given their profile)

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
              Thanks again. Another reason I wanted to get an ASL in place is that it seems almost impossible to get landlord insurance without one (unless I am missing something?). Overall it still seems like the best option given that I do not believe guests overstaying is a material risk to me (given their profile)
              Depends what you mean by landlord's insurance. My buildings policy (freehold house arranged as self contained granny flat and main house) expressly covers me for both ASTs and short term holiday lets. Includes liability to occupiers. Can't recommend my policy or the brokers as I'm going through a claim at the moment and both are terrible, although it is not related to the holiday letting side of things.

              Regarding over stays, I've had well over 50 short term (weekend to 2 months) whole home lets and never had an over stay.
              Assume I know nothing.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
                Thanks again. Another reason I wanted to get an ASL in place is that it seems almost impossible to get landlord insurance without one (unless I am missing something?).
                You're missing out by trying to buy online?

                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #23
                  Thankyou. For the holiday lets does your insurance company require you to have some sort of contract in place with your guests ? If so what contract do you use?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by stanleyman View Post
                    Thankyou. For the holiday lets does your insurance company require you to have some sort of contract in place with your guests ? If so what contract do you use?
                    No it doesn't require any contract for holiday lets. It does require minimum 6 month for the AST. It also differentiates between AST tenants and holiday let tenants in that AST tenants need to be professionals - holiday lets do not have the same requirements.
                    Assume I know nothing.

                    Comment

                    Latest Activity

                    Collapse

                    • Reply to Rent arrears 6 months - Moved out without forwarding address
                      by Purple80
                      Thank you for your response. I had just served a letter stating if they dont pay the arrears, i will have to take court action. Maybe that prompted them to leave.
                      I have access now but do not have a forwarding address. If I go via MCOL or court, can you advise on the process please?
                      ...
                      30-11-2021, 12:25 PM
                    • Reply to Rent arrears 6 months - Moved out without forwarding address
                      by theartfullodger
                      You will presumably already served s8g8,10,11. Maybe more than once

                      Follow up that through court or go McoL.

                      Do you have access after locks changed? Did they change th back before leaving? Any of their goods left behind?...
                      30-11-2021, 12:08 PM
                    • Rent arrears 6 months - Moved out without forwarding address
                      by Purple80
                      Can I please get some advise on tenants who did not pay the rent for 6 months and have now moved out without providing a forwarding address.
                      They breached the terms of the contract:
                      - Rent arrears for six months
                      - Pet in the apartment when there is a strict no pet policy on the development...
                      30-11-2021, 12:00 PM
                    • Reply to Tenancy issues - No Deposit Scheme, demanding deposit back
                      by llplug
                      I can't seem to reason with tenants, seems intent on legal action which is bewildering.
                      Does anyone know what these "no win, no fee" types actually take/make? Would I end up paying penalty + there legal fees?
                      Do I sit back and wait or as jpkeates suggests, get in quick with the...
                      30-11-2021, 10:48 AM
                    • Reply to MCOL & PCOL
                      by jpkeates
                      Thanks for the update, good to know.
                      30-11-2021, 10:05 AM
                    • MCOL & PCOL
                      by OS7
                      Hello Everyone,

                      Via Section 21,i have recently been granted a possession order for my property to happen in middle Jan 2021. The tenants are claiming housing benefit and they owe rent arrears and monies just under £7000 - I have applied for MCOL and now currently waiting to request judgement...
                      04-01-2021, 14:16 PM
                    • Reply to MCOL & PCOL
                      by OS7
                      Just to close of this thread : telephone hearing took place and after a lengthy hearing - the defendants application to set aside CCJ was dismissed and a CCJ with an instalment order was ordered by the Judge. He said he saw no real prospect of the defendant defending the claim, however to resolve he...
                      30-11-2021, 05:44 AM
                    • Reply to Am I a lodger or a tenant?
                      by AndrewDod
                      Even if you are an AST "tenant", you are tenant of Sarah, not a tenant of Sarah's landlord. If Sarah ceases to be a tenant that does not make you a tenant of Sarah's landlord (nor does any deposit you paid to Sarah have anything to do with Sarah's landlord).

                      Sarah's right of...
                      29-11-2021, 23:05 PM
                    • Am I a lodger or a tenant?
                      by Bert1e
                      Hello, I have a question about my legal status in private rented accommodation.

                      I live in a private rented house. The entire house is rented from the landlord by one individual (let's call her Sara). Sara has a bedroom in the house and a lot of stuff in the cupboards all around the house....
                      28-11-2021, 12:13 PM
                    • Reply to Section 21 and Gas Certificate
                      by jpkeates
                      There's not normally an issue with the gas certificate timing other than the very first one.
                      That said email is not how you give people documents like that, unless the tenant has agreed to be served them by email.
                      29-11-2021, 18:16 PM
                    Working...
                    X