"Tolerated trespasser"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    "Tolerated trespasser"

    The Housing and Regeneration Bill is to abolish this status. Anyone such will be transformed back into a tenant.

    NOTE
    The status currently arises as follows:
    1. L lets to T who later breaches Agreement.
    2. L obtains Possession Order against T.
    3. T is permitted to remain at property, no longer as tenant but now as tolerated trespasser.
    4. T still has to pay the rent (+ clear arrears, if Order so provides).
    5. Typical Order ends the tenancy (on a specified date), even if T remains at property.
    6. Effect: T no longer has RTB (if public-sector L), succession rights, right to exchange, contractual rights (over and above s.11 of LTA 1985) to make L repair/maintain, or other statutory rights enjoyed by tenants- because he's no longer a tenant.

    A recent County Court decision [Helena Housing v. Mower (2007)] innovated a rule that T's clearing of rent arrears impliedly effected an automatic discharge of the Possession Order- so T returned to 'tenant' status. The logic is shaky and I wouldn't rely on it too much!

    Source: "Practical Lawyer" (May edition)
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    #2
    Am I right in thinking this is aimed at socail landlords (LA's) rather than private, Jeffrey?

    Comment


      #3
      Not necessarily. Even a private L can obtain a Possession Order which terminates T's tenancy but leaves T in occupation thereafter.
      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

      Comment


        #4
        Would there be a rational explanation for a L obtaining a possession order, but not to activate it to its fullest extent?
        ASSUME NOTHING - QUESTION EVERYTHING!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Paragon View Post
          Would there be a rational explanation for a L obtaining a possession order, but not to activate it to its fullest extent?
          How about ignorance or laziness?
          All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

          * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

          You can search the forums here:

          Comment


            #6
            Brings me to the article in Lettings Update Journal about 3/4 years ago when a solicitor said that you can disconnect services after the date of the Possession Order as occupant is no longer the tenant and doesn't have the protection of the L & T or Housing Acts.
            The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

            Comment


              #7
              But Paul, they do have the protection of the Harassment laws - I think that solicitor is wrong and anyone disconnecting services for a resident still in occupation after the PO date has expired would feel their collar felt (or their nose felt if the tenant was so inclined and big enough!)

              Some 25 years ago, I was given 28 days to clear a caravan occupied by tenants from my land. I gave the tenants 28 days notice (prior to AST,s) and advised that electric service would be disconnected on the 29th day. I got a smart letter back from the LA saying if I did that I would be done for harassment.

              I then phoned the assistant solicitor to the LA who had sent the letter and said "You have given me 28 days - it will take 6 months through the court, your housing bod has told the tenants to stay put and await legal eviction. The only other thing I can do is withdraw services so that they cannot live there any more" He said that if the caravan was still there after 28 days, I would be prosecuted and that if I did anything to make the tenants go, I would be prosecuted for harassment" Then he laughed!!!! I told him that, as a former officer of that same council, I knew where his office was and I would be there in 15 minutes to knock his f'in teeth down his mouth so far that he would need to shove a toothbrush up his ass to clean them and by the way, the call had been tape recorded.

              Result - my solicitor got on the case to the LA who rehoused the tenants pronto rather than us go to the press and TV with the tape!

              That was 25 years ago nearly - the LA's have different guidance nowadays which includes presumably not to laugh at a landlord's predicament!!!!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by davidjohnbutton View Post
                But Paul, they do have the protection of the Harassment laws - I think that solicitor is wrong and anyone disconnecting services for a resident still in occupation after the PO date has expired would feel their collar felt (or their nose felt if the tenant was so inclined and big enough!)

                Some 25 years ago, I was given 28 days to clear a caravan occupied by tenants from my land. I gave the tenants 28 days notice (prior to AST,s) and advised that electric service would be disconnected on the 29th day. I got a smart letter back from the LA saying if I did that I would be done for harassment.

                I then phoned the assistant solicitor to the LA who had sent the letter and said "You have given me 28 days - it will take 6 months through the court, your housing bod has told the tenants to stay put and await legal eviction. The only other thing I can do is withdraw services so that they cannot live there any more" He said that if the caravan was still there after 28 days, I would be prosecuted and that if I did anything to make the tenants go, I would be prosecuted for harassment" Then he laughed!!!! I told him that, as a former officer of that same council, I knew where his office was and I would be there in 15 minutes to knock his f'in teeth down his mouth so far that he would need to shove a toothbrush up his ass to clean them and by the way, the call had been tape recorded.

                Result - my solicitor got on the case to the LA who rehoused the tenants pronto rather than us go to the press and TV with the tape!

                That was 25 years ago nearly - the LA's have different guidance nowadays which includes presumably not to laugh at a landlord's predicament!!!!!!
                I wasn't sure if Paul was supporting that assertion or was gob smacked at the poor advice given by the solicitor.

                Good story DJB.
                All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

                * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

                You can search the forums here:

                Comment

                Latest Activity

                Collapse

                Working...
                X