Research lodger or tenant and what's the most suitable lease agreement?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    jpkeates

    > So the notice periods and terms are likely to be invalid

    Actually, there is nothing relating to ending a let (inc. notice periods) in my agreement, which is another reason I want a new agreement (i.e. the correct type of agreement)

    > If there's a deposit it probably needs to be protected and so on (regardless of what the tenancy agreement).

    Tangentially, my deposit protection scheme (DPS) is the reason for embarking on this issue

    Our DPS won't uphold a dispute if an AST isn't in place so in order to have my deposit protected I need an AST

    > The basic problem is likely to be that it's likely that the landlord won't agree with my conclusion, and the issue will arise when something happens where the type of agreement is critical.

    Yes, I need to persuade my landlord to migrate from a lodger agreement to a tenant agreement. I'm strategising how to do this but on paper it does seem an AST is the most suitable agreement. I will relay something to the effect of: not having the correct agreement in place tends to forfeit the landlord rights, not the occupier rights, if a problem arises, which I read on authority.

    Yes, having locks changed if a problem arises, which he did threaten when I moved in if rent wasn't paid, is a fear motivation for an AST

    [This] and [that] are useful resources for understanding lodger rights relating to notice periods and eviction

    Cheers

    [This]: https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your...s-tenancy-type
    [that]: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...sic_protection

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by ldexterldesign View Post
      Yes, I need to persuade my landlord to migrate from a lodger agreement to a tenant agreement. I'm strategising how to do this but on paper it does seem an AST is the most suitable agreement. I will relay something to the effect of: not having the correct agreement in place tends to forfeit the landlord rights, not the occupier rights, if a problem arises, which I read on authority.
      The landlord is likely to believe that there are significant benefits to a licence agreement, which gives you many fewer rights than you would have with an AST.

      Unless they understand that the agreement is actually an AST regardless of what it says, they're unlikely to want to change anything, because they'll think they're doing something to their disadvantage.

      It might be an advantage if your landlord took some legal advice about their own position.

      There are downsides for the landlord, because there are penalties for not protecting a deposit connected to an AST, but, again, the landlord is likely to believe that they are doing the best thing for them (otherwise why not use an AST in the first place)?
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by ldexterldesign View Post
        If you're anti-social then ask yourself why you're using a help forum?? 😕
        I am usually helpful, but my patience is tried by people who deal with requests for clarity by just referring to earlier answers.
        I still don't know for sure if the garage is attached to the house - I know it is a 'separate building', which I think very likely means it isn't attached at all - but some people do refer to seperate, and attached, buildings in different ways.
        As you didn't want to help clear up possible ambiguities you shouldn't be surprised if some people don't want to risk wasting time on something that could end up all being wrong anyway.

        Comment


          #34
          I think on the facts it's most likely to be a common law tenancy as clearly the garage is annexed to the house, whether detached or attached.

          Comment


            #35
            jpkeates thanks for thinking for me!

            Comment


              #36
              Jon66

              Hi!

              Thanks for reply

              If "garage" is as pertinent as it seems here then my apologies to Ted.E.Bear

              Regards

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by ldexterldesign View Post
                If "garage" is as pertinent as it seems here
                For a summary, see https://letlink.co.uk/letting-librar...using-act-1988

                Comment


                  #38
                  Ted.E.Bear

                  Thanks for that resource

                  I think the three most relevant sections are:

                  1.

                  > In Lewis-Graham v Conacher6, an extension which was originally a granny flat and garage had been added to a semi-detached house. It had connecting doors between the house and the extension which were locked. There was a common gas, electric and water supply. At that stage, it was clearly one building. The landlord subsequently carried out works to divide the two dwellings into “separate buildings” after serving notice on his tenant (but had not completed the work before the notice had expired). The Court held that there was still one building. Interestingly, the Court also stated that they did not feel that it would be a separate dwelling even if the services were separate (as they were subsequently).

                  Unable to infer unless "services" is defined

                  2.

                  > Purpose-built
                  > “Purpose-built block of flats” is defined in sch. 1, para 22. It must as constructed contain two or more flats. The date of construction is the relevant time to consider, and a distinction is drawn between conversions of existing buildings (which would only in the most exceptional circumstances constitute “purpose-built blocks of flats”) and constructions of new buildings (which if they consist of two or more flats will be within the definition).

                  I infer my rental is not purpose built because it doesn't contain >1 thing

                  3.

                  > “Same building”
                  > Whether the dwelling-house let to the tenant forms part of the same building (or flat) as the dwelling-house occupied by the landlord is an issue within the legislation which seems to cause the most confusion to practitioners. This confusion is understandable, since the distinctions are obscure and in some cases appear to lead to conflicting conclusions – something all practitioners of housing law will find eminently familiar !
                  >
                  > For example, is our granny annex in the initial example to be considered as “part of the building” ? Clearly where the annex is a separate building, say adjacent to the landlord’s own dwelling (or even at the bottom of the landlord’s garden), then it will not be part of the same building (as there is a no significant physical connection between the two buildings) and thus the landlord will not fall within the “resident landlord” status.
                  >
                  > But, what if the landlord builds an extension onto his house for use as rental accommodation, and the extension has no interconnecting doors with the original building ?
                  > Whether or not the landlord’s dwelling house and the tenant’s dwelling house is deemed to form part of the same building is a question of fact and degree. But in coming to an overall decision on this matter, it is likely that a court will pay significant regard to the intention of the statutory provision when the legislation was drafted3, which was to allow the landlord to remove a tenant who lives in close proximity to him.

                  As it stands, I infer my landlord is not resident, which seems to be the most important factor in concluding this case, because there is a no significant physical connection between our (i.e. landlord and my) two buildings

                  Can anyone clarify what "statutory provision" means?

                  Hope to hear back

                  Cheers

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Statutory provision means the statutory law as laid out in the legislation.

                    The point is to look at the purpose and intention of the law. My opinion is that you live in close proximity to your landlord in a building annexed from the main property but which is within the curtilage of that property and as such probably have a common law tenancy, there is a case to support my view.

                    Comment

                    Latest Activity

                    Collapse

                    • Reply to Section 21 and Gas Certificate
                      by Mr. Sparkle
                      There were no issues, the GSC states that everything is safe.



                      Thank you for the help.

                      My AST states that by signing the agreement, the tenant agrees that email is a valid method of serving documents such as the GSC, EPC, EICR etc. I also use a online signing service...
                      30-11-2021, 12:45 PM
                    • Section 21 and Gas Certificate
                      by Mr. Sparkle
                      About 3 weeks ago I had a gas certificate issued.

                      I forgot to email the tenant a copy of the document.

                      I plan to evict the tenant with either a Section 8 or 21 and want to know whether there is any issue regarding the delay to give the tenant the gas cert?

                      There...
                      29-11-2021, 14:15 PM
                    • Reply to Rent arrears 6 months - Moved out without forwarding address
                      by Purple80
                      Thank you for your response. I had just served a letter stating if they dont pay the arrears, i will have to take court action. Maybe that prompted them to leave.
                      I have access now but do not have a forwarding address. If I go via MCOL or court, can you advise on the process please?
                      ...
                      30-11-2021, 12:25 PM
                    • Reply to Rent arrears 6 months - Moved out without forwarding address
                      by theartfullodger
                      You will presumably already served s8g8,10,11. Maybe more than once

                      Follow up that through court or go McoL.

                      Do you have access after locks changed? Did they change th back before leaving? Any of their goods left behind?...
                      30-11-2021, 12:08 PM
                    • Rent arrears 6 months - Moved out without forwarding address
                      by Purple80
                      Can I please get some advise on tenants who did not pay the rent for 6 months and have now moved out without providing a forwarding address.
                      They breached the terms of the contract:
                      - Rent arrears for six months
                      - Pet in the apartment when there is a strict no pet policy on the development...
                      30-11-2021, 12:00 PM
                    • Reply to Tenancy issues - No Deposit Scheme, demanding deposit back
                      by llplug
                      I can't seem to reason with tenants, seems intent on legal action which is bewildering.
                      Does anyone know what these "no win, no fee" types actually take/make? Would I end up paying penalty + there legal fees?
                      Do I sit back and wait or as jpkeates suggests, get in quick with the...
                      30-11-2021, 10:48 AM
                    • Reply to MCOL & PCOL
                      by jpkeates
                      Thanks for the update, good to know.
                      30-11-2021, 10:05 AM
                    • MCOL & PCOL
                      by OS7
                      Hello Everyone,

                      Via Section 21,i have recently been granted a possession order for my property to happen in middle Jan 2021. The tenants are claiming housing benefit and they owe rent arrears and monies just under £7000 - I have applied for MCOL and now currently waiting to request judgement...
                      04-01-2021, 14:16 PM
                    • Reply to MCOL & PCOL
                      by OS7
                      Just to close of this thread : telephone hearing took place and after a lengthy hearing - the defendants application to set aside CCJ was dismissed and a CCJ with an instalment order was ordered by the Judge. He said he saw no real prospect of the defendant defending the claim, however to resolve he...
                      30-11-2021, 05:44 AM
                    • Reply to Am I a lodger or a tenant?
                      by AndrewDod
                      Even if you are an AST "tenant", you are tenant of Sarah, not a tenant of Sarah's landlord. If Sarah ceases to be a tenant that does not make you a tenant of Sarah's landlord (nor does any deposit you paid to Sarah have anything to do with Sarah's landlord).

                      Sarah's right of...
                      29-11-2021, 23:05 PM
                    Working...
                    X