Tenancy Clause - Cleaning Cost Stated

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    Tenancy Clause - Cleaning Cost Stated

    I'm aware that my AST cannot insist on a professional clean at end of tenancy - but I can require the property is left in the same condition it was at the beginning (allowing for normal wear and tear) and the Tenant can then do the cleaning himself (herself).

    However, what I'm finding is that my male tenants tend to leave the place less than clean - dirty shower tray/walls, toilet stains, hoovering, kitchen surfaces etc

    Because they work long hours and are very well paid, they consider paying for someone else to clean at the end of tenancy to be a part of the cost in renting the place - but then question it anyway lol

    So, my question;

    Can I include the following statement within my AST?

    EXISITING STATEMENT = To keep the Premises and the Landlord’s contents in as good and clean state of repair and condition and decoration as the Premises were in at the commencement of the Term and make good all damage and breakages to the Premises which may occur during the Term (fair wear and tear excepted).

    ADDITIONAL PROPOSED STATEMENT = At the end of the Term, the Tenant may be required to bear the cost of returning the property to the same good and clean state of repair and condition and decoration as the Premises were in at the commencement of the Term. If additional cleaning is required, it is charged at £50 for the callout and up to 2 hours cleaning, with additional cleaning charged at £22 per hour or part thereof.

    I think stating an amount which "could" be levied helps to focus the Tenants mind on leaving the place clean and tidy.

    Interested in your views
    My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

    #2
    Originally posted by landlord-man View Post
    ADDITIONAL PROPOSED STATEMENT = At the end of the Term, the Tenant may be required to bear the cost of returning the property to the same good and clean state of repair and condition and decoration as the Premises were in at the commencement of the Term. If additional cleaning is required, it is charged at £50 for the callout and up to 2 hours cleaning, with additional cleaning charged at £22 per hour or part thereof.

    I think stating an amount which "could" be levied helps to focus the Tenants mind on leaving the place clean and tidy.
    I think I can understand what you're trying to do, and I can imagine that your tenants probably wouldn't object.
    But it's not legal.

    The way the tenant's fees act works is that all fees and charges are prohibited and then exceptions are made.
    And that's not one of the exceptions.

    As well as the fees and charges that are allowed, there is the general principle that losses beyond those envisaged when the contract was entered into that arise as a consequence of the contract can be the subject of a compensation claim.
    Which is what allows landlord to make claims that are not charges or fees and for these to continue to be legal.

    But the claim for compensation has additional rules.
    The loss has to be real and the person claiming it has to keep the loss to a minimum.

    And there's going to be some element of the work being charged for that relates to the fair wear and tear, so the loss is unlikely to be all of what you're charged by a cleaner.
    Not sure that anyone other than me would worry about that, though.

    You could try wording it more as though it were an optional additional service "If you prefer that we assist in returning the property to the condition required, we would be happy to arrange this and pass on the charges at cost (currently [2021] this is roughly £94.00 for 4 hours cleaning)."

    Personally, I don't like quoting prices, but my leases tend to be quite long term, and I think you're right about setting expectations.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Yes, I can see what you're saying .

      As you observed, its more about setting expectations.

      I would much rather a Tenant left the place clean and tidy as it is a PITA trying to get a cleaning company to suddenly come out at short notice for a job they may only get one day every year or two.

      If you can get one, the nature of the urgency means they can't pop round, give a quote and then arrange to come back at a later date - it has to be an agreed minimum rate to attend and includes x hours within that min rate.

      So - I wonder if a local cleaning company could provide a written statement of costs for x, y, z - and simply include a copy of that alongside the EPC, Electrical Safety, Condensation Factsheet etc that I hand over?

      Kind of just a "for your information" leaflet.
      My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

      Comment


        #4
        Just bump rent up a little and pay for cleaning at the end yourself: Overall no cost to you, job done.
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by landlord-man View Post
          Yes, I can see what you're saying .

          As you observed, its more about setting expectations.
          Possibly best to leave it until the tenant serves notice or you get to a couple of months before the end of the fixed term?


          "When you moved into the property we made every attempt to make the property welcoming and in a good and clean state. We hope that you understand that when you move out we would expect the property to be in the same good and clean condition. To achieve this you may need to employ a professional cleaning service.

          Please note that if you don't leave the property in a good and clean state we will have to use a professional service which, experience has shown, may be significantly more expensive than a service that you can arrange in advance, because of the short notice.



          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            Possibly best to leave it until the tenant serves notice or you get to a couple of months before the end of the fixed term?


            "When you moved into the property we made every attempt to make the property welcoming and in a good and clean state. We hope that you understand that when you move out we would expect the property to be in the same good and clean condition. To achieve this you may need to employ a professional cleaning service.

            Please note that if you don't leave the property in a good and clean state we will have to use a professional service which, experience has shown, may be significantly more expensive than a service that you can arrange in advance, because of the short notice.

            EXACTLY what I do (well not word for word lol)

            Because I go in on the 1st Tue of each month (agreed) to test the fire system, I get to see what condition the place is in.

            When I get Notice, I remind the Tenant about leaving the property in the same condition etc etc but it doesn't really motivate them.

            My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
              Just bump rent up a little and pay for cleaning at the end yourself: Overall no cost to you, job done.
              IF I have the opportunity to bump up the rent, it's because the market will pay the increase.

              I'm not here to subsidise unclean / untidy Tenants.
              My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

              Comment


                #8
                I'm allways wondering why this type of question comes up so often.

                Surely you just factor into the rent, as a busness expense, the need to always have a cleaning firm round at the end of the tenancy; whether it's needed or not.

                It's not a fee unless you try to state it and charge it as a seperate expense.

                (TBH I have no doubt that many already do that, but when it comes forget that it"s already been factored in)

                In normal non-covid times tenants notice is 2 months, plenty of time to book a cleaning firm. But even if they leave in a hurry any extra cleaning reqiired has already been factored into the rent they paid.

                Comment


                  #9
                  My Tenants like my studios because I allow them to give 2 weeks notice should their job change - I dont want them there not paying rent nor do they want to stay somewhere they aren't earning.

                  Including an end of tenancy clean in with rent is an AVOIDABLE COST which comes out of my profit - perhaps I should put a quid on the rent in case they break a window, another quid in case an item of furniture is damaged, another quid in case the tenant throws his fist at the TV, another quid and another quid and another quid.

                  No, the rent is what it is - if nobody wants to pay it, the rent comes down.

                  The rental income ie profit is what I live on and I view a rent increase (or lower expenses) as a pay rise. And I doubt many would happily hand over their pay if they could avoid it.
                  My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by landlord-man View Post
                    ... perhaps I should put a quid on the rent in case they break a window, another quid in case an item of furniture is damaged, another quid in case the tenant throws his fist at the TV, another quid and another quid and another quid.
                    Exactly - and if none of those things happen then you have made a nice bonus, especially if its a long tenancy.

                    But I still suspect that you would forget that you had already factored for it and want to charge extra anyway - call me cynical.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If the maximun i can get for a property is £600 per month why would I want to deduct avoidable expenses from it?

                      The Tenant pays the £600 and keeps it clean and tidy and doesnt break things and leaves the property without any deduction from Deposit.

                      I still get £600 per month.

                      Or the Tenant leaves a mess which I pay for and I dont get £600 per month.

                      Think I will stick to earning as much as possible and allow the Tenant to look after the place - and not penalise me if he doesnt.
                      My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You already have a statement requiring the property returned in the same condition as when let, so why don't you just deduct a cleaning fee from their deposit if that isn't done?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          At the end of the Term, the Tenant may be required to bear the cost of returning the property to the same good and clean state of repair and condition and decoration as the Premises were in at the commencement of the Term. If additional cleaning is required, it is charged at £50 for the callout and up to 2 hours cleaning, with additional cleaning charged at £22 per hour or part thereof.
                          Restricting the issue solely to cleaning, the problems with the above are:

                          (a) You need to establish what the state of cleanliness was at the start of the tenancy. Even if you do that, the tenant can still argue that although the tenancy agreement says it was spotless it was in fact disgusting. If you want the tenant to leave the property in a clean condition then you just say so...period.

                          (b) If you start putting in cleaning rates you are open to the argument that they are forbidden by the Tenant Fees Act.

                          Off the top of my head, I suggest something like this:

                          At the end of the Term the Tenant must leave the Property and its appliances in a good clean condition such that, the Property being otherwise lettable, it can immediately be let without being cleaned. This obligation does not require the Tenant to have the Property professionally cleaned, but the Tenant will be deemed to have complied with this obligation if within seven days after the term expires the Tenant produces to the Landlord sufficient evidence that within the last seven days of the Term the Property has been cleaned by a business specialising in cleaning properties.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            lol Lawcruncher - I know what you're trying to say but your last paragraph is mind-numbing to read and interpret (perhaps therein lies the problem - it has to be complicated to best cover the issue)




                            I think I will stick with my original clause (its from an AST by the NRLA) but not add the suggested one.

                            Then, 2 weeks prior to the end of Tenancy I will email across to the Tenant a copy of a letter from our cleaning company which details their terms and fees should HE wish to engage their services.

                            If he choses not to and leaves the place a mess, at least he knows what to expect regarding proposed deductions from his Deposit.
                            My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If and only if the deposit scheme agrees
                              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                              Comment

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