Notice to Quit validity in Joint tenancy which is rolling now.

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    Notice to Quit validity in Joint tenancy which is rolling now.

    I believe this is the best place to raise my questions as I am tenant. I took AST in Sep 2017 for 6month fixed and continued as a rolling contract.
    It was a joint tenancy with wife and her parents. Also 2 years ago we are divorced. We supposed to move out 2 years to newly purchased house but lockdown and some financial issues delayed the project . The rest of the tenants move in Sep 2021, that is what I was told.

    All these 44 months I am paying rent/counciltax/waterbill. Recently I started asking them to share rent as it is too much for one person. I started
    getting abused and I am ended up in one room most of the time.
    Finally I fed up with the situation and gave NTQ through email but landlord says one tenant doesn't have right to give notice and all tenants should give the notice. I am unable to contact Citizens advise bureau or shelter as they are constantly busy. Also read the tenancy agreement and there are no breakout clauses saying one tenant cant give notice. It looks like standard AST.

    so my questions are

    1) Is my notice valid? Is Estate agent is bluffing?

    2) do I case against rest of the tenants for rent if I would like to pursue?

    Thank you very much. Any answer will be appreciated as I am under server stress.

    #2
    One joint tenant can give valid notice that ends a periodic tenancy for all unless the tenancy agreement explicitly says otherwise.

    Whether the purported notice you have given is valid or not depends on facts you haven't given. What does the tenancy agreement says about how notice may be given. By post to a specific address, by email, hand delivered letter, etc.?? What does the tenancy agreement say about deemed date of service? Two working days after posting, etc?

    Also, a notice to quit must be of at least one complete period of the tenancy (where period is less than yearly) to be calculated from the date of service to date of expiry using a half open range, ending on the last day or the first day of a period of tenancy. The tenancy ends on midnight at the end of the last day of the period.

    2) do I case against rest of the tenants for rent if I would like to pursue?
    Standard joint (and several) tenancy, all joint tenant are responsible for the rent from the viewpoint of the landlord. If you don't pay, the landlord can pursue whichever joint tenant they like, for the whole amount. It is between the joint tenant's own agreement how they may wish to split the rent. What agreement do you have between yourselfs, what evidence do you have of that agreement?
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you very much for quick response. Below are the snippets of the Agreement which are related to notice. Also my email is part of the contract.

      All I can see notice should be given in writing. I signed the contract on 14th September, but I pay month end. Last email notice is given
      on 13th of the April. As I haven't found any place yet, so thinking of giving new notice through writing postal letter (signed for) and email notice this week to leave on June13th. I will pay this month and next 13 days rent.

      Is that protects me for any further actions from the landlord?


      Coming my second questions, there is no agreement between the tenants how we share the rent. I believe most of the tenants don't make written agreement for how they divide the rent. I might be wrong.

      Here are the snippets from the AST.

      This Tenancy agreement is a legal and binding contract and the Tenant is responsible for payment of the rent for the entire agreed term.
      The agreement may not be terminated early unless the agreement contains a break clause or written permission is obtained from the Landlord.

      Section 196 of the Laws of Preparty ACT 1925 provides that a notice shall be sufficiently served if sent by registered or recorded delivery post
      (if the letter is not retuned undelivered) to the Tenant at the property or the last known address of the Tenant or left addressed to the Tenant at the Property.

      Where the Tenancy comes a periodic tenancy at the end of the fixed term period then tenant is required to give at least 28 days notice ( or one
      month in the case of a monthly tenancy) in writing to end the tenancy. Th landlord is required to give at least 2 month's notice in accordance
      with the statutory rules prescribed by section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 but the landlord 's notice does not need expire on the first or last
      day of the period of tenancy.

      The Parties agree

      That notices and other documents given in connection with this tenancy may be served by email on the Tenant at the
      email address(es) supplied above. The notice of document will be regarded as received by the Tenant at the start of the next business day
      after it was first sent. [ The Tenant(s) Email may be left blank where the Tenant does not agree to this clause)

      Comment


        #4
        You just have to serve a valid notice - 13 June expiry as you say. You'd better warn the other tenants that they will become trespassers after that unless they make some arrangement with the landlord.

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you very much. This is my unferstanding so far, please correct if i am wrong.

          I already given a notice by email on April 12th against 14th contract signed date. One of the clause say both agree landlord can give email notice if email address exists on the contract which is present. Estate agent reply to my notice says one single tenant can't give notice as all tenants should give notice together. So i believe existing notice is valid though estate agent refuses to admit. As i met personally to explain present situation about abuse i am receiving lately and i am paying rent all along and ask him to intervene. His reply was small court case, £1500 court fees and ccj and i might not buy house in future if we go to arrears and all are responsible and he can sue individually too. Probably i have decent job and i might be dragged into legal dispute. He refuses to talk to other tenents and he asked me make other tenants to agree for new agreement. That is estate agent stance.

          Though tenants are not in talking terms, i explained the situation through whatsapp. They refused for new agreement as they likely to move in 3 months. All i was told if i leave they are happy to pay rent. It is silly. My concern is paying £1500 (other bills inc) for present rental property and mortgage and other bills which are £1500 is too much for them and they might avoid paying rent. That is my dilemma as i don't want ccj as i got rid of one ccj 3 months ago after 6 months proper debt management.

          Last night i made final offer asking them to pay £500 and rest i pay next 4 months. Estate agent still thinks my email notice invalid and happy to receive his rent who ever pays them. If they refuse to pay, i have no option then giving another written notice by this month 12th and pay rent and walk out and face estate agent in court if i dragged into dispute.

          Is this correct course of action?

          Comment


            #6
            The estate agent is wrong that you cannot give notice unilaterally. However, your notice may not be valid because you sent it by email. The clause you quoted allows the landlord to send notices in relation to the tenancy by email you the tenant. It doesn't say anything about the tenant being able to send notice by email to the landlord.

            If however I am wrong about the validity of your original notice, then the tenancy will end on its expiry. Just because the landlord (or their agent) refuses to recognises it, and you may be changing your mind because you haven't found anywhere to move to yet doesn't change that.

            If your original notice was valid, you stay on and pays rent and it is accepted by the landlord, then a new periodic tenancy is deemed created. If you weren't serve whether your email notice was valid and had served a new postal one, that postal one wouldn't end the new tenancy because it would had been served before the new tenancy arose. So you need to get advice / decide whether your email notice was valid and then act accordingly.
            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you again. After checking various blogs and posts, this is my understanding. Pleaae correct me if i am wrong.

              If my email notice is valid ( that needs to be checked), then agreement is null and void on the final date. Also ntq is retractable. Even rent is paid, it is end up mesne rent (hope that word is right).

              ​​​​Also once valid notice is quit served, double rent will come into effect for overstayers.

              Can you confirm again after paying rent in notice rollimg contract will come into effect? I have a feeling notice is more powerful than rent.

              Comment


                #8
                Assuming your notice is valid, the tenancy ends when it expires.

                If people remain in occupation and rent is paid, a new tenancy will begin - but the tenants will be the people paying rent and in occupation.

                If no rent is paid and the property remains occupied, the people in the property are trespassers (and the landlord can claim mesne profit from them to compensate for income lost while they are trespassing).

                Whether any money being paid by the occupiers is rent or not is complicated, but won't be your problem.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  If you, as one of the joint tenant in a periodic tenancy, serves a valid notice to quit, then on the notice's expiry, the tenancy will end. It's not null and void in its more usual meaning as if it were never valid / never happened. You can specify the last or the first day of a period of the tenancy in your notice, the tenancy will end midnight between the two.

                  A valid notice to quit is not retractable. Once served, the tenancy will end on the date specified. If the landlord and tenant agrees to treat it as if the notice was never served, or the landlord agrees to tenant's wishes to withdraw the notice, etc., then the existing tenancy will still end as specified, and then a new tenancy will start on the following day.

                  A tenancy (less than 3 years) can be created by verbal agreement / evidenced by action of the parties. If someone is paying rent, and it's accepted as such, there's a tenancy, whether it's continuation of an existing one or a new one. So if there's any remaining occupier paying rent to the landlord, that's a new tenancy between the landlord and them.

                  If a tenant serves valid notice to quit, then doesn't leave and holds over, then the tenant will be liable to pay the their ex-landlord mesne profits for the tenant's use and occupation of the property they are holding over. The rate of the mesne profits is at double the rent they were paying during the tenancy, with liability calculated pro-rata daily each day they are holding over. I do not know whether the same would apply to joint tenants who were not the one that gave the notice to quit, and may as well not be aware the notice to quit had been given.

                  If you gave the notice to quit, and then left by the end of the tenancy, you will not be liable for any mesne profits as a result of the other joint tenants holding over (whatever the correct rate is) so long as you do not consent to the other joint tenants holding over.

                  Yes, you are still liable for and have to pay rent after giving notice but before the tenancy ends.
                  I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                  I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi ,

                    Quick question. I am living in the property for 3 years 8 months ( joint tenancy). Due to irrevocable differences, I am planning to leave. I gave one notice through email ( 2 months ago) and estate agent rejected is saying all parties should sign the notice. I believe he is wrong. I was recommended by this site members to make sure email notice is valid or not. so I am giving proper signed notice today and would like to leave after one month.

                    But I went through the AST agreement again and there is no sign of fixed term mentioned. But when we moved we asked for 6 months fixed term as we paid 6 months rent in advance too.

                    Is it possible to have AST without mentioning period of contract? If that is the case, still one tenant notice is valid?

                    Thanks

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Since your tenancy is periodic and not remaining on a fixed term, you only need to provide 1 months notice.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks for quick reply.

                        Also checked my long list of emails with estate agent, after initial 6 months I asked whether we can extend for 3 more months.
                        Estate agent replied not an issue with extension and asked whether I would like to pay 3 months rent or monthly.

                        I hope that gives the indication of 6 months fixed term , otherwise I never asked for extension.

                        I have done enough research and I understand during periodic tenancy , one tenant can terminate the agreement. But don't understand why Estate agent threating me with CCJs if I leave and other tenants failed with rent. He even said with bad CCJ, I never buy house or rent any where in future after paying rent on time for 45 months.

                        But thanks to this site and members , there is lot of valuable information about tenancy issues and issues between landlords and tenants.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You stated that your tenancy stated +3 years ago, the initial tenancy was 6 months after which you received another 3 months renewal, what happened after this, it would have automatically gone turned into a SPT, unless the agency renewed for another fixed period, but you indicated there wasn't, therefore your tenancy is now periodic.

                          You've stated the tenancy is jointly with other T(s) therefore if one of you gives notice it is for all, an example is if you stop paying rent, the payment will be retrieved from the other T(s) including yourself. Is the issue may be the other T(s) may not want to leave is this the case?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Initially we signed for 6 months contract as we wamt to sell our house n buy new one. As i don't know the rules that poiny time asked for 3 months extension by email. I believe it is not necessary as fixed term turns to rolling one automatically. But now i understood aftee 6 months, it becomes a rolling contract. After that no new contract signed and we are paying monthly.
                            All these years i am paying rent and bills aa rest of the tenants are x-wife(2 yrs ago) and her parents. Though they have good rent from their London house, they refusing to contribute
                            Finally i realised enough is enough and need to move on as 70% of my salary going towards the rent and other bills.

                            Rest of tenants refuse to sign new contract as they want to move on too newly bought house 2 yrs ago. Unfortunately due to lock down n financial issues, i can't see when they move.

                            ​​​​​​Estate agent is saying all tenants need to sign which i feel is wrong. I am happy to go to court if insist and drag me there. There must be a way out as 3 tenants ganged up and blocking me kitchen and stuck to one room for last 6 months.

                            I gave notice in April through email and not sure email is valid in court. So today i posted overnight signed for n paid £11, so it reaches tomorrow. 14th is the date we signed the contract.

                            I hope this end of the road for me. I read the contract but there is no mention of 6 months which is baffling. It is 9 page contract. Is it possible contract can be made without term?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The notice required in a periodic tenancy from a tenant is a minimum of one month ending at the end of a tenancy period, which will be the day of the month that the initial term ended.
                              Otherwise it's not valid notice.

                              If the tenancy is periodic, nothing can stop you serving notice unilaterally, which will end the tenancy for everyone.
                              They and the agent have no choice about that, although they can always reach a new agreement excluding you to start when your notice has expired and you have moved out.

                              If the estate agent challenges this, ask them why, if they're right, tens of thousands of people aren't trapped as you would be.
                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment

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