Acting as a Guarantor for Son

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    Acting as a Guarantor for Son

    My son and his friend have been renting a private student flat for the last two years. Their courses are almost now at an end with their contract currently being periodic.

    The other father and I are guarantors for the boys. The “deed of guarantee” was signed online using docusign and facilitated by a national letting agency.

    The boys without consulting me now want the landlord to deduct the final months rent from the deposit and pay back any remainder to them (1 weeks rent). 5 weeks deposit was paid at the outset. They optimistically don’t expect any deductions.

    However the landlords’ letting agent has already written to me demanding payment for the final month.

    I’m not looking for a lot of grief so wondering what the best way forward is. Can I safely ignore the demand or encourage the boys to pay the final month’s rent and hope the landlord pays back the deposit in full as they expect.

    I also note that a clause in the “Deed” of Guarantee contains the following:

    “This agreement will remain enforceable against the Guarantor(s) throughout the
    Tenant’s occupancy of the Property and will not be restricted to the fixed term
    specified within the Tenancy Agreement.”

    Does this mean that as soon as the boys are out of the property the agreement is unenforceable against the guarantors?


    #2
    Originally posted by tango1234 View Post
    “This agreement will remain enforceable against the Guarantor(s) throughout the
    Tenant’s occupancy of the Property and will not be restricted to the fixed term
    specified within the Tenancy Agreement.”
    Unless there's a legal reason this clause cannot be enforced, you have signed to accept liability for your Son's unpaid rent, plus any potential damages that are not covered by the deposit. If he doesn't pay, you're liable.

    The deposit is not usually - unless agreed (in writing, I'd imagine) by both parties - to be used to fund the last month's rent. It is to cover any potential damages caused to the property by the tenant(s).

    I'd advise your Son to pay his rent as normal and then get his deposit back in the usual way. If the lettings agency try to deduct damages from the deposit he doesn't agree with, then he needs to fight these costs through the relevant deposit protection scheme. This is why deposits are protected.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Beswick View Post

      I'd advise your Son to pay his rent as normal and then get his deposit back in the usual way. If the lettings agency try to deduct damages from the deposit he doesn't agree with, then he needs to fight these costs through the relevant deposit protection scheme. This is why deposits are protected.
      I would do this, i assume you have spoken with your son and told them to simply pay what they have contractually agreed to do ? It seems a lot of hassle for very little gain, if they both intend to rent (either together or separately) in the future then their way of looking at things may get them both into trouble with future landlords. Keep it simple.

      Comment


        #4
        Someone's had a bright idea haven't they?

        The tenants can't decide to pay rent with the deposit.
        They can ask that the landlord decides to forgo the security of the deposit and accept the money as rent, but it's not their choice.

        And the landlord will probably say no, because, if nothing else, ending the protection of a deposit before the tenancy ends is both a complete pain in the admin and opens the landlord to a potential legal claim (which would probably fail, but again is a pain).

        The landlord loses the simple mechanism for any damage (and the leverage associated with having control of the money).
        And there's nothing in it for the landlord - they don't get any benefit at all.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          At least you will have learned a valuable lesson - don't offer to help your son again.

          If he is that stupid, underhand and sneaky to try this trick, then it's time he was allowed out in the real World and from under his parents apron strings.

          Why on earth would he and his friend even think this was acceptable?

          I've always said Students lose an ounce of common sense for every week they're at Uni - he's obviously been their too long or didn't have much to begin with.
          My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

          Comment


            #6
            The deed of guarantee may not be valid if not signed with wet signatures and all parties present. I think questioning this may at least buy you the time to scold the boys and tell them to pay their rent!

            Comment


              #7
              Teach your children to obey contracts and agreements they have made/signed. That's what good parents do.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
                The deed of guarantee may not be valid if not signed with wet signatures and all parties present. I think questioning this may at least buy you the time to scold the boys and tell them to pay their rent!
                Legislation around the World has covered electronic signing for some years now.

                My rental software Landlord Vision (https://www.landlordvision.co.uk/?re...d92e10c9e0a006 - I get a small commission TY) includes electronic signing by Signable.

                https://www.signable.co.uk/legal/
                My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

                Comment


                  #9
                  There is still some doubt about the validity of electronic signatures for deeds.
                  And, even if the signatures are accepted, the requirements of a deed are still that the witnessing is actual, I.e. the witness has to be in the same place as the tenant.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by landlord-man View Post

                    Legislation around the World has covered electronic signing for some years now.
                    Although there is some legislation which suggests digital signatures can sometimes be OK for deeds, your system is most unlikely to suffice. It is pretty much impossible to prove who signed it, how it was witnessed, ort if it was signed at all. There are also a bunch of other things that might make a deed invalid or impossible to enforce.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by landlord-man View Post

                      Legislation around the World has covered electronic signing for some years now.
                      As jpk said, the issue is with deeds. Have a look at this legal firms opinion (first one that popped up in google): https://www.ashfords.co.uk/news-and-...nic-signatures
                      "we have yet to see a case that confirms that a deed may be signed electronically"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        have to split this to several posts as multi url is considered spam it seems lol

                        First few that popped up in Google - including The Law Gazette and HM Land Registry...................

                        https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/assoc...mitted-to-hmlr
                        My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

                        Comment


                          #13
                          https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/workin...lectronically/

                          https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/ele...103306.article
                          My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

                          Comment


                            #14
                            https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2...-conveyancing/

                            https://www.signable.co.uk/electroni...y%20themselves
                            My views are my own - you may not agree with them. I tend say things as I see them and I don't do "political correctness". Just because we may not agree you can still buy me a pint lol

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The land registry is a special case, there's a specific program to introduce electronic signing for particular deeds.

                              The general problem is that it's virtually impossible to show that an electronic signature was signed in the same place as the original signature being witnessed.
                              By introducing a professional conveyancer into the process

                              There are going to be test cases on this issue, but there hasn't been one yet.
                              I don't intend to be a pioneer.
                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment

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