Tenancy Expired

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  • DPT57
    replied
    Yes, they clearly have no sense of urgency. I presume they have the other landlords phone number. I would tell them that they have until tomorrow to find the answer and give me a definitive date or I will apply to the court for a possession order and sue them for my legal costs in court. If they give a date I would ask them to serve notice to leave on this date which I would then formally accept.

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  • Claymore
    replied
    They certainly have had plenty of time. In fact, over 7 months. I wouldn't mind but they are so blasé!

    Leave a comment:


  • Berlingogirl
    replied
    Originally posted by Ted.E.Bear View Post



    If they leave without giving a month's notice, then what can you do about it?

    Deduct a month's rent from the deposit. The section 21 is only an intention. If only the S21 gave a definite date by which the T had to be out of the house and the LL could go in and change the locks, but it isn't. S21 can only be an intention. This gives the tenant time to find somewhere else and give appropriate notice BEFORE the LL has to start legal action.

    Oh for the time when S21 was only 2 months and landlords hadn't started selling up and there was a selection of properties available for tenants.

    Having said that, I've always been so very glad to see the back of my S21 tenants, that I've not stuck to insisting on them giving appropriate notice. They all had arrears etc that gobbled up any deposit and as they were all suffering from fiscal incontinence of some sort they weren't worth chasing for me to recoup the loss, but always worth making sure they got ccjs.

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  • Claymore
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    The notice expires 10 month's after it's served on the tenant.

    You might want to point out that the next step in the process will cost more than £300 which you will recover from them and you are on a deadline.
    Thank you - appreciated.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    The notice expires 10 month's after it's served on the tenant.

    You might want to point out that the next step in the process will cost more than £300 which you will recover from them and you are on a deadline.

    Leave a comment:


  • Claymore
    replied
    I do echo your thoughts JPK.

    My issue is that, I verbally agreed NOT to make an application to the Court so long as they would give me a fixed date of their departure. So far they don't appear in the slightest bit fussed about going anywhere.

    I am asking for a video call tonight to discuss with them - if they can't give me a fixed date by the end of this week, I will have to get the ball rolling with the Courts. The last thing I want to end up with is, having to re-serve the 6 months notice because I have run out of time with lodging the Court Application.

    Am I correct in thinking I have a window of 4 months after expiry of the notice, to lodge the Court Application?

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    This only highlights one of the great mysteries of English rental law - when a tenant is served a section 21 and moves out, how and when does the tenancy actually end if the tenant doesn't give notice?

    There are only a limited number of ways a tenancy can possibly end, and a landlord giving notice isn't one of them.
    The notice may require that the tenant do something, but the landlord isn't actually in a position to make that demand, and the tenant doesn't have to comply.

    So the notice itself doesn't end the tenancy, the tenancy doesn't come to an end as a result of the "effluxion of time", there's no court order for bailiffs to execute and the tenant hasn't given notice.

    Either the tenancy ends because everyone simply accepts that it has ended (which seems very odd, because what if someone doesn't accept it) or the tenant's actions are some form of surrender which the landlord has pre-emptively accepted by giving notice.

    I'd love to know what would happen if a landlord gave notice, the tenant left as requested and the landlord didn't recover possession and sued the tenant for rent for a period after they'd moved out.

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  • Ted.E.Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
    Yes, they need to give you the usual month's notice. Your notice is only an intention to seek possession after (date).
    I'm not so sure of this - a Section 21 'requires' the tenants to leave and does not request that they give notice.

    Back in the old days of two months notice, it was also possible to serve a section 21 notice which would expire before the the tenants could even possibly give a month's notice.

    If they leave without giving a month's notice, then what can you do about it? It seems that you either accept that the tenancy is over and no more rent is due, or allow the tenancy to continue and go to court for possession - which would be madness.

    (There are various complex legal arguments over this, but as far as I know not considering the now mandatory wording on Form 6a. Section 21c also has "as a result of the service of a notice under section 21 the tenancy is brought to an end before the end of a period of the tenancy" which allows for a tenancy to somehow end as a result of the Section 21 - activating this clause would not ever be possible if the tenancy could only come to an end by the tenant giving notice).

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Even if tenant's notice is less than 1 month (for monthly payable rent), LL & T can agree it is valid...
    Hackney LBC v Snowden
    [2001 ]

    Open to landlord and tenant to agree to treat NTQ as valid and thereby waive
    the requirement of four weeks’ notice.
    (This would have been a weekly, fortnightly or 4-weekly rent payable).

    So, "sunlit uplands" you could agree they go this afternoon.... (I would in your circumstances)

    Leave a comment:


  • Berlingogirl
    replied
    Yes, they need to give you the usual month's notice. Your notice is only an intention to seek possession after (date).

    I'd write to them saying you're pleased for them that they've found another property and asking them to give one month's notice ending on the last day of a rental period (as per tenancy agreement) and provide them with the proforma tenants' 'notice to quit' with the date of the last date of a rental period already on it e.g. 14th ________(insert month) 2021.

    Leave a comment:


  • Claymore
    started a topic Tenancy Expired

    Tenancy Expired

    Hi

    I served notice on my tenants back in September. Notice has now expired. February tenants informed me they have found a new property - next door to their parents. The new property was due to become vacant end of March. Apparently Landlord has some works which need doing before my tenants can move in. Today I asked for an update as my tenants are still residing at my property. Vague response, doesn't even know if the other tenants have moved out yet. I asked if they can find out what is happening from their new landlord. Tenants said the new landlord will be visiting some time next week so they will speak to him then.

    I do need my property back and I do need some advance notice of the date because I live over 200 miles away and I have arrangements to make. I feel I need to put some pressure on them for dates or I am literally going to get a phone call one day saying, 'Hi, we've left!'

    Is it reasonable that I ask them to give me a definite date, or I will have to start the ball rolling with the courts?

    Many thanks
    Claymore

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