Tenant vacated, owe rent? Regain access?

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  • SpringGreen
    replied
    Yes, rent arrears and damages can be claimed. As the deposit only covers a fraction of what is owed, Would it be make sense to claim a percenage of the total cost for damage and then claim the rent via MCOL? or claim rent and damages via Deposit Scheme?

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    (I knew, member) So ask NRLA what it means for deposit and arrears.

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  • SpringGreen
    replied
    jpkeates & theartfullodger D o S reads : The T herby surrenders and releases to the L all their interest in the Property with vacant possession and the L hereby accepts this surrender. '


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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
    now IANAL but I think that means tenant has no further claim on deposit, landlord has no further claim on any arrears.
    I'm not a lawyer either, but that doesn't do anything but end the tenant's interest in the property, which is the actual surrrender.
    It doesn't say anything (in the specific text quoted) about anything else owed or any other right or liability.

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Lodger not dodger, I don;t dodge:


    Important point is that details matter in landlord/tenant issues.


    re the deed I note their deed, copyright acknowledged seems to say something like ... ....tenant surrenders and releases to the Landlord all their interest in the Property .....
    - now IANAL but I think that means tenant has no further claim on deposit, landlord has no further claim on any arrears.

    For the avoidance of doubt, if I'm not clear what a document means I tend to ask the source of said document.

    I fully agree it ends tenancy: 'umbly suggest you check with them what it means as regards deposit and any arrears.

    This deed
    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...406#post577406
    - makes it clear
    5.1 The Tenant releases the Landlord from the Landlord's Obligations

    5.2 The Landlord releases the Tenant from the Tenant's Obligations
    - so deposit is left with landlord, there are no longer any arrears.


    Not massively impressed with the other document, but IANAL so what do I know.

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  • SpringGreen
    replied
    Theartfulldodger, the D o S was from the NRLA I am not sure whether you are familiar with it? NRLA advised that
    the Tenancy ends on the date it has been signed.

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by SpringGreen View Post
    Update: Deed of Surredner signed by all parties with a Witness. There is a dispute with the deposit and it seems many cases are won by the Tenant, is it worth claming damages from the Deposit or claim rent arrears which has a 'higher chance of success'? as I was thinking to try and claim damages via the Deposit Scheme and MCOL for rent arrears?
    So what does the deed of surrender say about any rent arrears and about deposit?? Sadly I can't read it from here....

    'umbly suggest you do some training in how to be a landlord: I speak as someone who started, thought he knew what he was doing, idiotic, painful, expensive, long-drawn out mistakes: Oh my stupidity!: Oh the Hubris!

    Resolved to start learning: Still learning: Still making mistakes.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Rent is simple, you can create a schedule going back to the start of the tenancy showing all of the rent owed and all of the money received.
    The difference is the rent owed.
    The tenant can argue that you're missing payments and can try and prove they're right and you're wrong.

    There's no right in English law to offset one debt over another, so the tenants can't claim that they withheld rent because of "x".
    They can only make a counterclaim on the basis that even if they owe you rent, you owe them for something else, which they'd also have to prove.

    That kind of dispute won't be settled by the deposit company ADR, they'll advise the tenant to sue you for their disrepair and hold onto the deposit while you resolve it in court.
    So there's an obvious incentive to use the court to recover the rent - the fee can be automatically added to your claim if you use the online process or it's a checkbox on the paper forms (if I remember correctly).

    The damages are more open to adjudication, and the best policy is to make sensible claims and show the basis of the claim.
    You're claiming for a loss that wasn't an intrinsic part of the tenancy agreement and it has to kept to the minimum possible, there can't be any gain in it for you, just setting right the loss.

    So show how you arrived at your figures - mould is the cost of rectification of the mould. If you're claiming for redecoration, base your costs on the original cost of decoration and deduct any lifetime you've "enjoyed" already.
    The hole repair should be adjusted in the same way.

    You want any dispute by the tenant or the adjudicator to be on the calculation of the loss, not on the principle.

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  • SpringGreen
    replied
    pkeates - appreicate your post. Damages are: hole in ceiling, mould and windows, etc. As the deposit will only cover one damaged item. claiming rent arrears may have a higher chance of sucess? , Will a signed Deed of Surrender help my cliam of 6 months rent)? weighing up the costs as there is fee to pay via the MCOL? and also need to provide evidence...

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Rent arrears are almost impossible to dispute, rent is either owed or it isn't.
    Any claim for rent therefore is usually met with a counterclaim for something else, like disrepair (or not defended and ignored).

    Damage claims are (as far as I can tell) "won" by the tenant because the landlord claims more (often far more) than they're entitled to and the adjudicator reduces the claim to what the landlord is entitled to.
    Get the claim right and either the tenant sees that it's fair and agrees or the adjudicator awards the requested amount.
    Many other landlords agree with you.

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  • SpringGreen
    replied
    Update: Deed of Surredner signed by all parties with a Witness. There is a dispute with the deposit and it seems many cases are won by the Tenant, is it worth claming damages from the Deposit or claim rent arrears which has a 'higher chance of success'? as I was thinking to try and claim damages via the Deposit Scheme and MCOL for rent arrears?

    Leave a comment:


  • SpringGreen
    replied
    Options : NRLA - Deed of surrender and a qualified solicitor - 'Notice to Quit' and to tell NRLA a solictior had said this option. NRLA confirmed their option of Deed of Surrender, as it is AST hence, Notice to Quit, cannot be used.. Welcome your thoughts

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  • DPT57
    replied
    SpringGreen, I think you're struggling to understand the implications of what is being said to you. In the short term, I suggest you get some legal advice on this situation and in the longer term, perhaps some more landlord training from an organisation like the NRLA.

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  • MdeB
    replied
    Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
    I'd tell the council they were still living there so they're liable for the council tax and that they have clearly had two tenancies running.
    What would you hope to achieve by that?
    And why can someone not have two tenancies running?

    Leave a comment:


  • SpringGreen
    replied
    '‘retake possession by implied surrender, apparently the Tenant claimed that had sent letters to say that they have moved out three months ago and back dated the letter to one month before their moved out date...(hence, the Council has passed the council bill to the Landlord) the actual letter did not have their address or the Landlord’s address just the property address. Is this a valid notice? How does the Tenant ‘notice to vacate’ needs to be written? Does it have to be a set format like when Landlord serves a Section 21 Notice?

    If the Tenant is not being pursuse for rent arrears/ damages or anything else then the property can be repossessed? or can the Tenant can pursue for illegal eviction ?

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