Anyone see a problem with this

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    #16
    You need to make reasonable efforts to arrange the return of someone else's goods.
    What's reasonable depends on their value.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #17
      nukecad,

      What about if he injures me. Sorry man but if someone tries to break into my home or tries to come into my home and refuse yo move , you better be prepared for war .

      I'm not one of these pushy types that gonna sit there and moan about it .or be calling the police , who not going to do anything.

      I have text messages that he has left and too late I've changed the locks

      Comment


        #18
        Berlingogirl,

        Good points, the money isn't really the issue . Maybe some vengeance on my part the 15 I don't really care about and will be more hassle than it worth .

        There's about 2 weeks left until the 28 days are up shall I give him say a week notice at 21 days and then add the hit about disposing of them

        Comment


          #19
          I'm sure that by the letter of the law you have to give, or receive, formal notice, then you can enter and do what you want with what ever is there, you can also change the locks. That's the official route.
          You've got a text message, so in todays world I'm sure that suffices, but I'm no legal eagle, so don't take my word for it.
          I had a tenant a few years ago that was being a bit naughty with young girls, ( you know what I mean ), I only found out he'd left when I bought the local weekly, there he was coming out of court on his way to prison!!!!!!!!
          I went straight down to my property, knocked the door, ( I still to this day don't know why I did that ), let myself in and low and behold all his, and his girlfreinds, ( unless he was a cross dresser ), stuff was still there. I looked through the stuff to find details of her and phoned her up to advise that I would be ordering a skip in 24hrs unless it was collected, low and behold 3 of his mates turned up with a van and cleared the best of the ***** out and kindly left the rest, ( I was just happy to have the property back as he was in arrears ).
          His mum also showed up and demanded I pay them the deposit back, i informed them about the arrears and said that I would chase him/them for it if I repaid the deposit, lets just say they changed their tune.
          Anyway, the point I'm getting at is that by the letter of the law I was in the wrong for doing what I did, I still had to serve notice on him although he was going to be an inmate for 18 months.
          Crazy world we live in.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Movieman View Post
            if someone tries to break into my home or tries to come into my home and refuse yo move , you better be prepared for war.
            Unless you have a possession order from the court, or a surrender agreement, then it is not your home.

            It is your property but the tenants home.

            You can't ignore the law simply because you are 6' and hefty.

            From all that you have said up to now this tenant could take you to the cleaners for illegal eviction if he is minded to.
            Any text you have is irrelevant, that he had moved out is irrelevant, his tenancy hadn't ended and by changing the locks (and not giving him the new keys) without a possession order then you have illegally evicted him.

            As there is currently a moritorium on legal evictions during covid then I would imagine that the courts would come down very hard on any illegal evictions.
            Illegal eviction can result in a prison sentence, and that option may well be imposed for an illegal eviction during covid.

            I'd think very carefully about what you are doing, and hope the tenant doesn't already know about that or take advice about it.
            (He may even be reading this thread, it's an open forum).

            Comment


              #21
              Do all you can to avoid physical involvement. Polite, calm, smiling but with care and large backup.
              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

              Comment


                #22
                nukecad,

                absolute nonsense otherwise the following scenario exists .

                Tenants text landlord they are moving out.
                tenants move out
                landlord enters the property
                Tenants sue landlord

                ????

                Round 2

                Tenanrs text landlord they are moving out
                Tenants ignore request to sign deed of surrender
                Tenants move out
                Landlord can never move in as will be illegal eviction

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                  Do all you can to avoid physical involvement. Polite, calm, smiling but with care and large backup.
                  Yeah maybe I've had time to calm down and will be best suited to just getting rid of him and moving on

                  Comment


                    #24
                    "Tenanrs text landlord they are moving out
                    Tenants ignore request to sign deed of surrender
                    Tenants move out
                    Landlord can never move in as will be illegal eviction"

                    The tenancy would still be ongoing as they've not formally ended it.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      When the tenant says they're leaving, that's an offer to surrender the tenancy.
                      You have to unconditionally accept that offer to end the tenancy.

                      If you say you'll only accept it if they sign a deed of surrender and they then don't, the tenancy hasn't ended.

                      In real life, no one gets prosecuted for illegal eviction unless it's an add on to something else.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Movieman,

                        As the others have already said, in both those situations the tenancy has not legally ended and he is still your tenant.

                        Without a possession order or a deed of surrender you leave yourself open to legal action; if the tenant is so minded.

                        Many landlords here will attest to the fact that parts of tenancy law don't always make 'common sense', especially from a landlords point of view.
                        They are currently well biased towards the tenant, mainly because of the actions of poor/bad/rogue landlords in the past.

                        Have you taken any courses on how to be a landlord, and how tenancy law works?

                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        In real life, no one gets prosecuted for illegal eviction unless it's an add on to something else.
                        Usually yes, but under Covid law and the moratorium on legal evictions I wouldn't be so sure what may happen to a LL who evicts illegally, and I wouldn't bet against prosecution.

                        PS. The Covid guidance for Landlords and Tenants was updated last week:
                        https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ds-and-tenants

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by nukecad View Post
                          Usually yes, but under Covid law and the moratorium on legal evictions I wouldn't be so sure what may happen to a LL who evicts illegally, and I wouldn't bet against prosecution.
                          The main obstacle is the high cost to a local authority of a prosecution.
                          I don't think the pandemic will help that much.

                          You go through life either following the rules or you don't.
                          When you don't, you lose the high ground - behaving badly because your tenant has behaved badly simply adds to count of bad things in the universe, it doesn't ever result in more good.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #28
                            nukecad,

                            Good points that the law is biased towards tenants .

                            But it still leaves us landlords in an impossible situation.

                            Eg tenant texts to say moving out
                            tenant empties property
                            tenant refused to sign deed
                            Landlord enters empty property
                            landlord is sued

                            Or the other situation where they refuse to sign it and you can never enter it.

                            U think the reality is this piece of law has not caught up with modern day eg we text now and texts are fine for nearly everything else , eg repairs , complaints , organising landlord visit BUT not to end a tenancy .

                            But I think truthfully if a judge allowed an above scenario it would destroy the BTL market as tenants would be raping that setup.

                            Oh and just o add they could even have changed the utility and council tax giving them an end date

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Movieman View Post
                              Eg tenant texts to say moving out
                              tenant empties property
                              tenant refused to sign deed
                              Landlord enters empty property
                              landlord is sued

                              Or the other situation where they refuse to sign it and you can never enter it.

                              U think the reality is this piece of law has not caught up with modern day eg we text now and texts are fine for nearly everything else , eg repairs , complaints , organising landlord visit BUT not to end a tenancy .
                              There's nothing wrong with working based on texts.

                              The solution to the situation outlined in the quote is to replace "tenant refuses to sign deed" with "Landlord confirms to tenant that they have accepted their offer to surrender the tenancy".
                              Then the landlord shouldn't lose even if sued.

                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment


                                #30
                                jpkeates,

                                Agreed I'm certain a judge would apply a common sense to thus. Seems like the law hssnt caught up with technology's advances.

                                Similar to the ground rent situation, just out of date and that system had go break until it was updated .

                                Any way he is gone now and all good , time to move on woth my life and make a better future and of course absorb those lessons

                                Comment

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